My reaction is pretty much the same as my reaction to religion. If it works for them, fine. Just don't try to foist it on me (through a fat tax or meatless Mondays, etc).

These guys aren't eating like the yoga-going-whole-foods vegan. They eat lots of concentrated vegan protein powders and stuff like that. I alway think if you're going through that much trouble, then just have a steak because cows are really just concentrated vegan protein. Let them do the work of turning the plants into food.

Why are you sullying your mind reading the NY Times?

I've read more than one bodybuilder call BS on vegan bodybuilders. Some of them try to pass off something like 90/10 veganism as veganism (i.e. gorging with some regularity on animal protein).

Props to them for at least thinking about their health as opposed to solely their physiques, but it's wrong-headed.

I'd really like to see their lab work regarding markers of inflammation, CRP especially. I somehow doubt they are nurturing their body on a cellular level, despite aesthetics.

And this is just a theoretical stab in the dark, but I'd bet they have to work a bit harder for those results, leaving them with higher cortisol levels.

Well, I can enjoy viewing a neighborhood but it doesn't mean I want to buy a house there.

Before forming an opinion, I'd want to talk to physicians who are treating significant numbers of people who have followed such a regime long term. By long term, I mean 15 years or more, meaning most vegans and vegetarians don't qualify. I apply a strict standard because, unlike ancestral eating, there's no built-in environmental/reproductive testing for the plant-only lifestyles. What will their middle age look like? How healthy/robust are their children?

You'll note I'm not rejecting their assertions, although I do refute their assumption that their lifestyle is kinder to the environment/wildlife. Based on my own standard, they could still prove me wrong. After all, I must remember Jack LaLane. :-))

Ask them if they know whether their physique is attributed to their diet, or was achieved IN SPITE OF their diet. They probably had to work twice as hard as the average meat-eating BB in order to achieve their results.

Classic difference between causation and correlation. Neither Paleo nor Vegan cause someone to look like a body builder. Im guessing here - but it's my belief that maybe 1% (but probably MUCH less) of bodybuilders are Vegan, and probably 10-20% are 'Paleo', the rest fall some where in the middle with most of them 50%+ consuming Oatmeal for breakfast, etc. Oatmeal, despite the fact that most likely more than 50% of them consume it, does not cause one to look like a bodybuilder either.

My guess with how they manage is that they are squandering the genetic health their forebears handed down to them.

Dr. Catherine Shanahan talks about this in her book, Deep Nutrition. Now, I ain't a scientist so I'm not sure how watertight her theory is, but essentially, by eating non-optimally, we're all wasting that inheritance. The first generation to do so isn't necessarily as affected, but each subsequent generation will degrade further and further. This makes sense to me anecdotally, since we're seeing obesity ever younger these days. When I was in second grade, there were exactly two fat kids and now? * Shudder *

Thank goodness for epigenetics! I hope I'm switching on some good stuff now.

I'd love to see how long they can keep it up.

You can be pretty strong as a vegan, or at least some people can. But it's just not optimal, anybody who goes vegan in order to become strong and build muscle is misinformed, because our muscles don't produce optimal amounts of various nutrients found in red meat that have an effect on muscle function. Creatine, carnosine and its precursor beta-alanine, carnitine, and various other nutrients are a boon to performance, no question about it. Now if you were to take a fist-full of supplements maybe it would be as good, but then again maybe it wouldn't, it's hard to rationalize taking supplements in order to remedy a disadvantage created by eliminating a food that one thinks is detrimental.

As for the -other- vegans, good luck to them, but they would still probably do better with eating some meat, what's more important, an ideology that gets you nothing other than more opportunities to feel smug or your body? Ultimately individual value judgements, but just how subjective are these values to begin with?

I have a relative who has been vegan for decades and when I was having trouble with veganism I was always so mad that he could succeed eating every single freaking kind of vegan junk food and I couldn't.

But then again, Michael Phelps pwns in the Olympics eating mostly junk food.

Well let me tell you. I did the vegan body buildling thing for around 8 months a couple years ago. On the outside, I was the heaviest and strongest I had ever been at 187lbs. I lifted really heavy and felt powerful and manly. I also consumed tons of vegan protein powder to help me grow and recover after workouts. I thought everything was going great...until I had a complete physical:

HDL Cholesterol was below 15. Yep. It was so low, they couldn't even tell me the actual number - the results came back saying "below 15". My triglycerides were around 250. My LDL was close to 100. My body fat was a dismal 18% even though I worked out like a machine. During this time, I was scarfing tons of granola, toast, nuts, and crackers thinking I needed all those carbs to grow. Yet, all I was really growing was fat over my muscles. Robert Cheeke was my vegan body building hero. I read his book and felt inspired by his success.I was duped by the bullshit science he provided.

Then I went low-carb Paleo. Very quickly I leaned out to 163lbs. My HDL returned to just under 40 (which is my normal range). My triglycerides are back to around 95-105 and my LDL is still around 100. I lift even heavier now than when I was a 187lbs vegan. My weight has slowly increased to 172lbs over the past few months as I've increased my carbs again but I'm still very lean at around 12% body fat. My CRP was 0.16 last month too which is great. I don't know what it was when I was vegan but I bet it was higher.

In my experience, yes, you can grow big and strong as a vegan bodybuilder. But it's not sustainable and will probably shorten your life. I want a strong muscular body with healthy bio-markers - Paleo is the only diet that can provide that for me.

Part of the reason I went vegan was because I love animals so much. I've watched countless hours of slaughter-house videos and documentaries on animal abuse on factory farms. It turned me off meat completely. But when I realized it was my life or theirs, I found a happy balance by eating grass-fed, organic beef and free-range poultry. Not only does it taste better while providing more nutrients, but I can rest easier knowing those animals had a good, easy life before their slaughter.

No response. I wish them well.

Strong vegans - maybe from steroids, lots of supplements, vegan protein powders, genetics.

I am going to put my two cents in :)

First of all, if you watch his video, one thing is really noticeable: look at his face. I mean, I hope he is not reading this but this is not what a healthy person looks like. And I am not talking about redness and acne - he does not look healthy overall, even his eyes.

Also, have you noticed the color of his skin? Even if he would tan nicely, his skin would still look unhealthy.

One more thing: please watch what he was cooking. Have you noticed those large plastic jars with what my guess is some kind of protein powder? Do you really think some protein powder is healthier than wild salmon? No, please think about it. Who makes all this protein powder, anyway?

Lucky genetics? No way. This guys is slowly killing himself. Even though he gets plenty of vitamins and minerals from all the veggies, he is depriving himself of essential amino acids that CANNOT BE FOUND in vegetables. I would like to see some longitudinal study that actually PROVES that in the long run he will sustain his health.

If you care about animals so much - fine, eat fish instead or eggs, they are not even fertilized, but no animal protein whatsoever... ? Think of a vegetarian dog. Or a vegetarian chimp. There is no such thing, period. You can train a dog not to eat meat, but will it survive?

There are going to be genetic freaks out there no matter what the diet. Doesn't mean that those are the results that the majority of people will get. He probably isn't very healthy, and I doubt he'll continue on his vegan route for that much longer simply because he won't be able to sustain good health.

It's like when vegetarians tell me, "oh yeah, well this athlete is vegan, and so is that one!", and my response is always, "yeah, and the other million athletes out there all eat meat, so what are you getting at?".

It is what it is, and I wouldn't put too much more thought into it.

Sorry but I'll have to necro this one. These are what I have learned:

Vegan bodybuilders, with the right genetics or supplementation, will not have a lot of trouble bulking up. If they can absorb all the nutrients in plant food with very high efficiency then yes, they can do that.

Now on the other hand, many people cannot. Some even have to take digestive enzymes (that's why I said 'or supplementation') or will burp and fart all day long and have trouble absorbing nutrients.

Now, to be a top level bodybuilder for a vegan is hard. The problem is in the shredding phase. Again, right genetics play a role. His digestive system must be able to absorb protein from carby food efficiently. His metabolism also has to be high enough so that when he's gaining protein through carb-heavy food, he is not gaining fat. However I think if a vegan bodybuilder just wants to show some pictures to the general public (instead of bodybuilding judges) then shredding is not that important. Nor is shredding that important to health, I guess.

Well, in the end it still comes down to genetics.

My ancestors conquered this planet so I wouldn't HAVE TO forage for veggies to get my protein and survive!

Any size they have is due to large consumption of highly bio-unavailable commercially, unnaturally, and ecologically devastatingly produced plant protein powders. Nobody gets muscular eating veggies only. It's cheating.

And for what point again? Anyone ever seen the pictures of the rainforest clear cutting in Brazil to grow soy? Endless sea of soy to the horizon, not a tree in sight. This is animal friendly behavior? I think their amino acid shortchanged brains are delusional.

Genetic mutants aside, no vegan is the top dog record-setter of their strength-sport-dicipline (compared to meat eaters).

Lucky genetics. That's all.

It's probably very good if it suits you. It seems that some people do great on veganism, whereas other people kill themselves. You have to do what works for you, as difficult as that may be, and constantly re-assess your values.