Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

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I have humbly looked over my diet over the last year and came to the conclusion that much of that time I was not really eating 'Paleo'.

I was drinking 'heavy cream' with coffee every day, sometime 2x a day, and I didn't go light on it. It was regular LandOLakes Heavy Whipping Cream. Its one nutrient 'fat' was 0% Paleo. I have learned that dairy fat from 'grain' fed cows contains the complete opposite fatty acid profile as that from 'grass' fed cows. Our Paleo ancestors would have NEVER consumed this, ever, because it simply did not exist. Heavy Cream (from grain fed cows) - is gone.

Beef. I have been consuming any and all version of beef. Rib Eye 3.0oz, Top Sirloin 9.0oz, Porter House 23.5oz. Most of the time, I was eating beef 50% Paleo. The protein content in beef is the same from grass fed to grain fed cows. The FAT content, again, is completely backwards from what it should be. <--my beef was NOT Paleo because our ancestors did not consume many animals that eat grain, whom were suppose to eat other things, therefore Grain fed cows did not exist, and therefore grain fed beef is not really Paleo(to me).

Chicken. Ive always eaten whats on sale. Same thing here, the chicken fat has backwards amounts of fatty acids is was not PALEO at all. Again, 50%. <--MY chicken was never Paleo, and nothing like foul Grok could have acquired.

Bacon. Same thing with bacon. Pigs are fed all kinds of garbage that creates a messed up fatty acid profile. My bacon at best was 50% Paleo, so not really Paleo at all.

Veggies - I ate a lot of veggies. Many contained pesticides, anti fungals, and other chemicals like anti-budding chemicals. I have a supposed 'organic' sweet potato that I have been trying to get to sprout for a month. Its not happening. It was sprayed with some kind of bud stopper, of which I checked the chemical formula page, and its listed as hazardous to human health. Isn't that lovely?. < Veggies are def. Paleo, but the chemicals are not. <10% Paleo, if that, due to the chemicals.

Fruits - Out of fear of fructose, I have limited my fruit intake although I have indulged in many, many berries. See Veggies. Again, I'm certain, they weren't really Paleo due to their chemical concoctions.

Results: Extremely High Cholesterol, Elevated Liver Enzymes, Lowered Testosterone, Low sex drive, fatigue in an otherwise perfectly healthy and strong 35 year old male, 5'9, 180lbs around 11-12% bodyfat.

Changes I am making.

Beef, either ultra-lean CAFO or grass fed only from here on out.

Chicken, either Organic chicken or breast, no skin from here on out.

Bacon, organic or none, and its off the list for now.

Veggies, Im looking into better sourced veggies, but cutting back on many of them for now.

Fruit, increasing my consumption.

I read (literally) everything by Dr Ray Peat and Danny Roddy over the last 2 days and it struck a nerve, or 6 Million. So, for the next 30 days I am going to be eating Paleo protein from sources above, Saturated fat that comes along with the animals and coconut oil and coconut milk, and carbs from 'safe' starches, fruits, and... .So basically a restricted Paleo diet(no gluten, grains, legumes, nuts, high O6 foods), plus sugar. I'll post my results.

EDIT: This was in no way meant to be a 'Paleo Snob' type post, but rather a realization that myself, and many of US have spent a lot of time, energy, and money, going from eating grains/legumes/HFCS/oats/wheat TO chicken/beef/bacon/cream often times increasing our consumption many times over. To say that eating ultra high O6 beef or cream isnt THAT much different than grass fed is an absolute failure in critical thinking. Something I have been guilty of right until this realization.

Grass VS Grain fed beef:http://texasgrassfedbeef.com/grass_fed_beef_in_a_nutshell.htm

So, are you really eating Paleo? Have you gone from where I am right now, to a better state?

edited Jan 28 2012 at 3:28

asked Jan 28 2012 at 1:14

Bill1102inf
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Good for you for aiming high. By this standard, no I am not paleo. I buy everything organic that's available but I can't afford to limit myself to grass fed beef. I'll take the health gains I've made and just keep doing what I can. – Nance Jan 28 2012 at 1:28

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I usually aim low at a huge target. Whatever bacon is 50% off is the package that goes in the cart. I'm picky about my clams and ducks, though. – thhq Jan 28 2012 at 6:06

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Good reminder, I guess I thought all of those guidelines were givens though (except for the variety of ideas on fruit consumption) from what I've gleaned in every "paleo" book I've ever read. That said, even with the excess 06 in CAFO meat and dairy and the ramifications on thyroid function and inflammation, it still seems light years more wholesome, and like it would kill me much more slowly than trying to subsist on things like PB&J sandwiches or convenience foods, which I did once upon a time. – Happy Now Jan 28 2012 at 7:35

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Where do you go from a better state than this? Your own private Idaho. I miss the B-52s. – thhq Jan 28 2012 at 12:43

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Chill, dude. You're going to give yourself a stroke. Totally not paleo. – tonysolo Jan 29 2012 at 3:01

show 3 more comments

CR · Answer 1 · 2012-01-28 02:30:56Z UTC

I think 100% bible Paleo is BS.

We may not have evolved to eat a lot of the crap but honestly this is all about getting the most out of life. What % more of optimal health is it by having that heavy cream vs the OPTIMAL? really at the end of the day when is enough enough? Are you going to quit your job and move into the wilderness? Paleo man wouldn't buy his meat at the supermarket regardless of if its from a grassfed cows or not. Hes expending energy hunting and killing his prey, skinning gutting etc. Your not doing that.

The world has moved on and we have GREAT advances and we here on PaleoHacks are also fortunate enough to be more educated in how we should be eating. You need to use today's environment to your advantage for optimal health and life balance.

I think those of you who want to think your 100% paleo because your food sources come as close to natural as you can are kidding yourself. 100% Paleo is not attainable.

Paleo should be in-line with the pareto principle, 80-20 people. Do as much as you can that is sustainable and you will see great results but after a while the return on investment is not equal to the effort, its less..

Anyways thats just how i see things. I eat store bought meat and when I can meat from a farm where the animals are not medicated and they are grassfed. But in winter they mix grains in because the climate here is cold and grass is not 100% available.

Cream I drink once in a while, sometimes from organic grass fed, other times store bought. Who cares. You know what im not drinking? Milk, Coke, KoolAid. Real food from a supermarket may not be the best but its 100000000x better than the life we had before.

I have helped people change their lives using this as a base, expecting more and people dont stick, maybe your an outlier and you want this kind of life, so good luck.

April S. · Answer 2 · 2012-01-28 02:23:51Z UTC

It's hard being strict Paleo. I love the foods and I love how they make me feel. For a while, I was really nitpicky about the foods I bought: it had to be grass-fed/organic/free-range/local/WHATEVER and although quality of the food is super important, in my situation, I cannot ignore the costs. I think those that can afford grass-fed and organic all the time should by all means buy them. But as a college student attending a private university where tuition is $50,000 a year, living with an unemployed mom, a ridiculous mortgage on the house--but please save your pity--I have to be practical. I do the best I can. The biggest burden for me is probably getting grass-fed meats. I don't mind eating fatty beef ribeye even if it's grain-fed because I kinda have to. Grain-fed beef to me is still tasty and satiating and so far, no ill effects.
I think I'm good as long as I avoid gluten, vegetable oils and legumes. I've also been avoiding fructose and dairy. In my case, what's more important is taking the bad stuff out of the diet. And grain-fed beef still isn't as bad as chicken and pork (which I rarely eat) in terms of omega 6:3 ratio. Plus I eat fish a few times a week.
My blood tests back in October where all within normal range (and although my total cholesterol was really high, my HDL was extremely high as well).

I think the Paleo diet is superior, but it shouldn't make people who don't have the resources to afford grass-fed/organic on a regular basis feel left out. The major thing is avoiding gluten/fructose/veg oils/etc. No one ever said you have to eat EXACTLY as the cavemen did with the EXACT compositions that the animals they hunted and the vegetables they gathered did back then. That's impossible. Although it's disheartening, we have to accept the fact that a majority of the foods we have today have lost most of their nutritional value and I am proud of myself for making those changes in my diet. Even though what I eat isn't the best version of what I could be eating, it's still better than a Pop Tart.

thhq · Answer 3 · 2012-01-28 05:57:29Z UTC

No. And I don't really care. I'll continue to eat whatever meat and butter are on sale from the grocery store and not feel guilty about it. I consider walking to and from that store to be a lot more paleo/local than what I put in my mouth. My bloodwork is great, my weight and waistline are normal, and I see no crying need for tweaking on my food.

There were no paleo chickens, cows, pigs, row cropped vegetables or grocery stores. Feeling special about sources doesn't recreate anything.

Paleo doesn't have to resemble life in Portlandia.

Wcc Kamal Stabby fan · Answer 4 · 2012-01-28 03:56:55Z UTC

If you placed it in a shopping cart then it's probably not "truly paleo"

If you hunted or gathered your food that would be much closer to "truly paleo"

I think the goal should be to improve your diet as best you can. Avoid processed foods and buy the highest quality natural food you can afford.

Eating a strict 100% paleo diet is not realistic in my opinion unless you are a true hunter gatherer.

Senneth · Answer 5 · 2012-01-30 18:39:50Z UTC

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Bill - I think people(The responders) are taking you wrong here. I am getting that you are trying to tighten up your "Paleo" belt not because of trying to be the idea paleo person (who doesn't exist) but because you are having continued health issues and hope that taking your paleo up a notch (via organic) might be a good step. Am I getting you on this?

I think from a health perspective this makes sense. If you can afford to do it, then by all means! I think it would help a lot. (Especially the Peat perspective to improve your hormones).

Also note that Peat doesn't eat much pork or birds. Even organic ones are supplemented with Soy feed and end up being super high in PUFU. Even non-organic beef is better than this since their rumen stomach system helps filter some of that crap out. I have found a few local sources of soy free pork and chicken -but don't eat em very often.

answered Jan 30 2012 at 18:39

Senneth
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Yes, for the most part. IMO, I just wanted to point out that we are aware of the difference between Sweet Potato Carbohydrates and Sucrose, but many are blissfully unaware of the EVEN GREATER difference between Grass fed and grain fed animal fat. This is especially important for those eating a LC/VLC/ZC diet, as consumption of fat is high (vs moderate/high carb), but people seem to have a huge attitude problem about it. I maintain that many people eating 'ATKINS' style Low Carb, Very Low Carb and Zero Carb 'Paleo' diets are poisoning themselves just as much, if not more, IF they are consumi – Bill1102inf Jan 30 2012 at 19:19

consuming grocery store bought, non grass fed animal products, which, due to their completely opposite and different fat content, are not Paleo anymore than HFCS containing wonder bread. – Bill1102inf Jan 30 2012 at 19:20

Sure, many people jump on Paleo for the 'weight loss' effect, then stay on it because they like it or start to understand the reasoning behind it. And Sure, ANYONE can lose bodyfat by restricting carbs down to nothing and eating animal meat, EITHER grass fed or grain fed. But so what? People went from 'watching what they were eating' to NOT 'watching what they were eating' just because they dropped some weight. Don't you think thats a giant problem? Positive feedback received (weight loss) = I MUST BE doing something good for my body. You are what you eat, you are what you eat eats too. – Bill1102inf Jan 30 2012 at 19:24

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totally right, Bill - I tell newbies that if they are going to eat a fatty Paleo diet, they MUST make sure that those sources of fat are healthy sources of fat - meaning, grass fed and pastured animal products. No exceptions! You can't half ass this part and expect good gains! – Nate Jan 30 2012 at 19:42

You don't have to see me on it, I am right there with ya Bill. I am all top of the line on my food quality. Learning more every day! – Senneth Jan 30 2012 at 19:48

meret · Answer 6 · 2012-01-28 01:19:09Z UTC

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i get my veggies and all meat, eggs and dairy (and fruit when in season) directly from a local farm. the only not-so-paleo items i'm eating would be chocolate, some almond butter, and i guess coconut products that are not typical for where i live.

answered Jan 28 2012 at 1:19

meret
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	OMG I read that and immediately thought of "where'd you get the coconuts?" from Monty Python and the Holy Grail – gydle Jan 28 2012 at 14:57
	The air speed velocity of an unladen swallow... African or European? – Dave S. Jan 28 2012 at 20:42

Caleb the Hobbit · Answer 7 · 2012-01-28 01:38:31Z UTC

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Great question. Seriously, this makes me want to look more into what I eat and make necessary adjustments. Good for you to do this. My only thought for you, is there a local CSA you could join? Or order grassfed meat you can order online?

Best of luck.

answered Jan 28 2012 at 1:38

Caleb the Hobbit
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	Thanks CTH, I have to find a new grass fed beef supplier. – Bill1102inf Jan 28 2012 at 2:18
	I just found one that also has kosher meat, win! Though I'm on the lookout for others. Wee. =) – Caleb the Hobbit Jan 28 2012 at 2:53

Paleo Designer · Answer 8 · 2012-01-28 02:05:48Z UTC

I just discovered beef bacon. It's ALMOST as good as regular bacon! I'd also recommend switching to coconut milk from the heavy cream.

I haven't been at this long (not quite two weeks) so I'm slowly learning things like take it easy on the nuts and how to increase my omega 3s. I really don't like fish so I make sure to buy omega 3 eggs and add fish sauce to soups.

What's your exercise routine like? I know I have to workout quite a bit to keep my cholesterol ratios in check.

delirious_nomad · Answer 9 · 2012-01-28 02:16:21Z UTC

I like this post and I agree... $$$ is the big factor. I have basically no access to fresh non-GMO veggies, I get what the stores (2) here have and no organic selections... I try to follow Sisson's advice and stay away from things like iceberg lettuce and soft skinned things. Beef I should be able to take care of easy enough (Safeway has Organic Ground Bison and Beef but at $8/lb I still buy it because I could be spending that at McDonalds or on pizza alot easier...and going to fill as many deer tags next year as I can... maybe even some good wild fish... but I hear where your coming from and I trim the excess fat from my store bought beef and stuff quit making roast as much and concentrate on lean cuts of meat only... PS grilled pork chops and eggs is pretty good for breakfast...

coprophagous · Answer 10 · 2012-01-28 04:45:16Z UTC

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we are Paleo men but we live on a different planet now so we have to do the best we can.

answered Jan 28 2012 at 4:45

coprophagous
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actually if they(the paleo) were vitamine C deficient im doing better than they are already. everybody needs a gram a day, you cant eat that much in foods. – coprophagous Jan 28 2012 at 5:14

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where's the planet with paleo women – thhq Jan 28 2012 at 6:13

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How can you say that everyone needs a gram a day, but that you cant eat that much??? Sorry, but that makes no sense. If you cant consume that much of something it makes no sense that you need to. Please evaluate your thinking with some logic. – peter Jan 28 2012 at 9:55

well, its like this, i dont know when mankind's one of four genes we have to make vitamin c was lost? do you? or can you? i just know we cant make vitamin c and we dont eat enough in food to stop gingivitis. so, unless paleo man had a pharmacist as a friend. he was pretty much screwed like modern humans that wont supplement their diets. – coprophagous Jan 28 2012 at 23:06

Why would we have lost a gene that we need. Evolution wouldn't take out something that we needed. Sorry, makes no sense. – peter Jan 28 2012 at 23:41

Nate · Answer 11 · 2012-01-30 19:29:40Z UTC

I think eating grass fed and pastured products is one of the more essential aspects of paleo, but that's just me. There is no one perfect way to live the lifestyle. Compare the diets of Inuits to tribes living in a jungle environment - not even close, but both would be considered Paleo, right? To me, "Paleo" (I dislike this label quite a bit) is eating as organically as possible, avoiding foods that are known to be problematic for ME. That would include most sugars, gluten, grains, wheat, soy, legumes, seeds, bad oils and a few other things. I handle dairy fine, but still limit it. We KNOW that grass fed and pastured animal products are the most healthy for us (and better for the animal), so that is an easy choice to make for me.

I really think that following a Paleo lifestyle is quite easy. People get so hung up on the goddamn "Paleo" label, though. Why in the hell would we want to strictly emulate what people ate 10,000+ years ago? Or live exactly how they lived? Some people take this shit wayyyyy too far. The world has moved on and we have made some pretty miraculous discoveries in that time, including information regarding nutrition and diet. If it's good for the body but wasn't available during the Paleolithic era, why would one avoid it?

Be happy with what you can do, and work on improving your diet as you gain knowledge about your body and it's reactions to certain foods. If your blood work is coming back good, then you are on the right track I'd think. The fact that you are consciously thinking about this stuff is a huge plus in my eyes! If only more people would think more heavily on what they put in their bodies and how that food is produced, this world would be a better place!

Just my opinion, of course, and not aimed at anyone in particular!

Phazo · Answer 12 · 2012-01-28 09:34:56Z UTC

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God, this question makes me feel guilty about being cheap.

answered Jan 28 2012 at 9:34

Phazo
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Are you eating real Paleo foods?

12 Answers