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Anybody read this insightful book? I must admit I was floored by how weak and feeble we have become compared to our ancestors of just 500 generations ago. I don't think it would be a good read if you are uncomfortable with descriptive violence,mass war/rape/torture/cannibalistic scenarios.

However I think it would be a great read for anybody who wants to know more about unbiased science based (fossil/DNA based) about past hunter gatherers, that is not often talked about. I realized from reading this text, the truth about our past is not always this nice scenario where everyone is eating fresh natural food around a peaceful campfire, living this symbiotic relationship with other groups.

In conclusion, while everyone is trying to figure out what happened to the neanderthal and the exact path of human evolution, this author basically asks the question where have all the alpha males gone. He makes a strong case, even when using a simple comparison between a 140lbs female chimp(with less overall muscle mass) who spent her entire life in a cage testing out as being 4x as strong as a fully trained 200 pound adult male athletes.

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Where have all the alpha males gone? Good Question. Not only has the human population become victim to the SAD, but we have all gotten 'soft'. I blame this on the 'everyone is a winner and gets a ribbon or trophy just for showing up'blame someone else for your troubles, no accountability kind of world we now live in.....If nobody is responsible for themselves then there is no need for alpha males. (I say this with loads of contempt and sarcasm!) – HDC-TX Feb 7 2012 at 20:40
Well said, HDC. It's partly why I found reading Nietzsche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra so refreshing. – Caleb the Hobbit Feb 8 2012 at 4:00
Monkeys and apes are a bad comparison, as their muscle fibers are very different than ours. – Wisper Feb 11 2012 at 4:11

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I know he was just trying to turn heads with the title, get someone to pick up the book etc, but he could have used the exact same comparison for females- females used to be much stronger on the whole too. But strength is not feminine, so he decided to just call the book "manthropology" and make strength the sole identifier of masculinity. That might sound like me just being a miffed female over the lack of "political correctness", but I think it becomes relevant when this book became a sort of media must-read for a little bit, bringing attention to the concept without portrayed the tongue-in-cheek aspect of the book.

Also, for the "unbiased science", hate to be picky, but this isn't it. Fossil records and DNA are solid, but interpretation isn't. The fact that a female chimp was directly compared to a male athlete just shows how framing works- yes the study may be true, yes it may be identified, but that doesn't mean it should have been interpreted that way. Do female chimps have an entirely different bone composition and ridiculous grip strength? Yes, and that is incomparable to humans. So does finding patterns and evidence while you are actively looking to support a hypothesis- you may see connections and overemphasize the importance of small details that you wouldn't if you hadn't already formed the hypothesis.

If your survival is not dependent on your physical strength, it doesn't become a major player in your life. If it does, however, then it is everything. My grandmother spent over 20 years raising 8 children, and she would shoot a deer every week or so for her family. She couldn't drive and didn't own a car, so she would have to rig up ropes to pull the deer back home, up to 10 kms in a trip. She did this usually with 1-2 babies strapped on her front and back. Upon getting home, she would use leverage to haul the deer up over a branch, so that she could let the blood drain out and butcher it with greater ease. She spent the rest of the day fishing and collecting oysters/muscles/berries/fruits/wild vegetables, with the remaining children who weren't school aged in tow. She is around 95 lbs and just under 5 feet tall. You do what you have to do, and we are still capable of it. I think you (and the author, without specifically implying it) are equating "western" stereotypes with how the world works now- most of the world lives below poverty line and have to perform multiple strenuous physical feats every day to survive. The women perform an enormous number of this tasks, which makes the title "manthropology" just seem insensitive.

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I cant seem to grasp your feminist point here, is it that your mad that he didn't include woman as being weak also? Or was it the precalent talk of homicide and rape that is you have issue with. Lastly how was your grandmother able to shoot a dear while holding two babies? As somebody who's shot animals as well as people I find this very hard to believe. – Cory151 Feb 11 2012 at 2:18
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-1, while yours is an interesting (if unlikely) anecdote, I don't really see what a feminist argument brings into the discussion. And before the outrage begins: I'm not saying you are lying about your grandmother, just that it is unlikely. And I'm not saying you are a feminist, but that the points you raised are. – Wisper Feb 11 2012 at 8:28
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And you also put way too much emphasis on (the impressive) feats of your grandmother (n=1 and all that). They are in no way representative of any past society I know of. Women certainly have needed strength in pre-industrial societies. But it has been the men who hunted and fought wars throughout the ages, and women who do the gathering which requires strength, but less of it. Also, women's upper bodies are significantly less capable to become strong genetically. – Wisper Feb 11 2012 at 8:35
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Okay, I included the little info on my grandma just for illustrative reasons- this is not a study. I wasn't trying to n=1 her, but she does in a way represent all the impoverished women around the world who perform amazing tasks to support their families. She has 7 other sisters, most of whom had to do a lot of ridiculous things to survive, which is what happens when you are a visible minority in a racist time and grew up secluded from society in an orphanage. Women in our own countries, across Africa, South America, Asia, and the Middle East still do these things. – JeJ Feb 11 2012 at 14:13
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@Amerindian- yeah, grandma's are the best. My grandma recently got married (first marriage, at the age of 72!) and she now lives out of a trailer/trick/boat rig and drives around the country fishing, hunting, and seeing the sights! She's having a great time in her old age, and gets to see her 7 (one brother passed away) children throughout the country! – JeJ Feb 11 2012 at 14:19
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A friend of mine researched chimp strength for his PHD. He said that per pound of muscle, chimps were something like 7-10 times stronger than humans. There were no significant physical differences in the muscle that would explain this and his hypothesis was that it was in how brain signaling activated the muscle. He also hypothesized that humans retain the ability to tap into their muscle's full potential in crisis situations, thus leading to stories of mothers picking up cars off their children and other crazy things.

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Yah, the real world is not like a Disney movie. There's a reason we're tool users.

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A fully mature FEMALE chimp could thrash any human alive in hand to hand combat. I judge this from research. Once I posted about this on some self defense/martial arts forum and the guys on there all got annoyed with me and denied it possible that they would lose to a chimp.

It comes down to strength to weight ratios, grips strength, and bone density. Chimps have denser, stronger bones, which can support more muscle strength. So a 110 pound female chimp would basically climb up any human and rip out out eyes, ears, hair, etc.

Even if a human wrestler got the female chimp into a rear naked choke hold, the chimp would just reach to anywhere on the wrestler, grab a tuft of hair, extremity, or fold of skin and rip it off.

Rule of thumb: NEVER shake hands with a chimp you don't know and trust completely.

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It comes down to our greater capacity for fine motor control and a chimps almost complete lack of it. At least that is why some theorize that people are capable of extraordinary strength in times of duress, the fine motor control limitation is bypassed. The book Manthropology suggests not necessarily that our Paleolithic era ancestors were as strong but probably our common ancestors were. Also that modern humans pale in comparision based mainly on epigenetic factors. And yes, be wary of mature chimps whether you trust/know or not. – Touch the Clouds Feb 7 2012 at 21:25
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The human physique is optimized for heat tolerance, not strength. As long as we could chase down prey in the heat of midday, when horizontal four-leggeds absorb too much sun to keep running, we had a cozy niche all to ourselves.

My guess is, our paleo ancestors always would have performed poorly versus chimps in tests of strength. They might have been a lot more physically fit than us, but not that much stronger. So the chimp comparison is invalid.

If you strand a chimp out on the savanna in the midday heat, we kill and eat 'em. Yum yum.

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Heat tolerance in a dry environment, humidity blunts the effectiveness of sweating. Also with daily access to water. That would allow for periodic bouts of high intensity activity. Restricting the example to our paleolithic ancestors would mean less strength than chimps as we had already shown a capacity for fine motor control. The book outlines many feats which would have withstood world records into the modern era. In the Willandra lake footprint fossils, one runner appears to have nearly matched Usain Bolt's record pace, in mud no less. Its epigenetic, were weaker because we can be. – Touch the Clouds Feb 7 2012 at 21:41
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Well some may be genetic, like the examples of the Aboriginal's far superior eyesight. But other factors like the articular ends of our long bones, which are genetically controlled, are nearly the same as our ancestors from a million y.a. The shafts have become more delicate and gracile however and that is controlled to a larger degree by lifetimes of sedentary living and poor nutrition. – Touch the Clouds Feb 7 2012 at 21:53
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It's not a stretch to think they may have been stronger on average than we are today. Even during the Industrial Revolution men regularly performed tasks that would cripple many today, swinging 18kilo sledge hammers all day or shoveling 20 tons of dirt by hand daily--in spite of them being smaller than we are today. – Touch the Clouds Feb 7 2012 at 21:57
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"men regularly performed tasks that would cripple many today"- and women, and children, in horrible environments. Have people stopped doing crippling labor in poor conditions? Of course not, that practice is still going strong. People can perform for periods of time with great strength then and now, and it takes a massive toll. I don't really think that "shows" we were once "stronger on average than we are today". Don't follow the logic. – JeJ Feb 8 2012 at 3:04
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I have no doubt that we've all been marginalized by machines like John Henry was. And Kichi-Makomon, the runner, for an even longer stretch of history. We've got hell to pay now as the machines wind down. – Huey Feb 8 2012 at 19:51
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