Paleo Diet and Paleolithic Diet Questions & Answers

Question

1

The amount of calories I should eat in order to lose weight has always eluded me.

The only time I have ever lost significant weight while monitoring calories was when I exhibited eating disorder-like behavior - eating 1,000 calories a day or less. Freaking out about counting everything, was hungry/woozy 24/7 and would have insane cereal binges when no one was watching. I dropped about 25 pounds, putting me at 140lbs, while I'm a 5'9 broad shouldered/wide hipped female...I looked very skinny despite my weight not being drastically low.

Anyway! Once my eating habits normalized, I gained about 40 pounds back..then stabilized at about 170, where it has more or less stayed ever since (this is over the course of 3 years).

Now I am eating a primal diet on a leangains IF protocol (been primal for half a year without any noticeable weight loss, just started the 16/8 IF on Monday). The leangains method calls for counting calories..which I am fine with. I'm just not sure how to properly determine an acceptable caloric goal for me on workout days or rest days!

I'm also borderline hypothyroid, which I take 200 mcg of selenium for daily and it appears to help..I also take dessicated thyroid some days. I assume this influences how many calories I'll need to eat to lose fat, and every website tells me something different.

What recommendations do you guys have? Anything? Does 1600 on rest days, 1800-1900 on workout days sound about right? Too much? Some calculators tell me a lot more, some a bit less, so this is my attempt at splitting the difference.

On a rest day right now..ate a little under 1600 calories in the 8 hour feeding window and feel SUPER hungry an hour out of it. Sticking it out with carbonated water.

Insight?

flag	asked Feb 9 2012 at 2:18 boredomkillsya 292●1●7

	I don't have a good answer -- but just sending my sympathies. I think I share some experiences with you -- the whole "I only lose weight when I severely calorie restrict and then do crap-tons of exercise" mode. It's miserable and I wanted another option, so that's why I started doing paleo. I'm still in the early days and also in the trying to figure out what's going to work stages...best of luck to you. – CharlotteM Feb 9 2012 at 4:37
	Thanks for that. Eating a very low calorie diet and doing lots of cardio is really no way to live..and I know from experience that it's something that drives me INSANE! My whole bought with that in the past caused somewhat of a mental break i think and it's a place i never want to go back to. it was miserable. that's why now i focus primarily on changing my body composition and gaining strength and muscle mass. i don't have a scale anymore either. – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 14:01
	Getting rid of the scale is great...that helped me a lot with some of my more disordered eating. I measure a few places on my body with a tape once a week, and I also pay attention to how my clothes fit. Don't know if you've tried this, but some folks tie a string around the smallest part of their waists -- loosely, but enough that if you swell up in your gut you feel it. For some reason, that helps me be conscious of my eating without obsessing about it. – CharlotteM Feb 9 2012 at 16:16
	Please read Gary Taubes Why We Get Fat, and if you have more time Good Calories, Bad Calories. Both books explain the science why it's not the # of calories but the quality. People can lose weight on 4000 calories and gain on 1200. – Lady_Arwen Feb 10 2012 at 23:33
	Arwen - have read good calories, bad calories. great book. great scientific analysis. the final theory appears very sound overall - HOWEVER, it does not seem to work too well for me. As i stated somewhere above, i tried a clean, VLC diet for a few months with no measurable fat loss. yes, this was WITH counting all carbohydrate grams, sleeping enough, etc etc. – boredomkillsya Feb 11 2012 at 4:22

show 1 more comment

Steven · Answer 1 · 2012-02-09 03:07:18Z UTC

Its mostly due to the fact that you are hypometabolic, probably because of another one of those low carb diets, which only exacerbate hypothyroidism. Do yourself a favor, start to take thyroid meds, like dessicated in the am, then nibble on a little T3 (10mcg) throughout the day do jump start you. The thyroid functions on proper cellular respiration and glucose oxidation, not free fatty acids, which tend to lower its function, unless they are short or medium chains, like that of coconut oil. Avoid poly unsaturated fat like the plague, as it causes hypothyroidism by causing FFA accumulation and inhibition of glucose metabolism; hence, your cells function more on free fatty acids, and less on glucose, which is more inefficient. Tons of pretty shitty things happen when you are on a low carb diet and/or eating tons of PUFA. Low testosterone, low progesterone:estrogen ratio. Inflammatory cytokines increase drastically and you become more susceptible to heart disease IF you are eating lots of PUFA. If you are eating lots of sat fat, then heart disease almost never is apparent. Hypothyroidism can be cured through diet, contrary to what someone said above. The main thing is that you want your body to start working with glucose again instead of against it. Glucose is your friend, and so is fructose, in context. Everybody likes to be very dualistic when it comes to dieting. Some say low carb, some purport low fat, but the truth is, things work in different ways in context, and you can't blame certain macronutrients for all your problems. A ketogenic diet will get you very lean, but 9 times out of 10 it will make hypothyroidism worse, which has a tendency to up regulate estrogen, cortisol, catacholamines, other stress hormones, inflammation, the list goes on and on. In lay man's terms, you basically are dying a little every day on a ketogenic diet. The body even tries to adapt to use fat for sugar, but it is highly costly and extremely inefficient. It's kind of like paying off a loan with interest. The amount of energy it takes for fat to make glucose, outweighs the amount of energy you take in, so without sufficient calories, your body basically eats itself. Lean muscle mass decreases, and then your metabolism falls even further from less muscle tissue. I was on a paleo diet for 2 years and it fucked my thyroid over. Lab tests were horrible. I was able to regain full function and improve my labs by increasing sugar consumption from lots of fruit and orange juice. In the long run, a healthy metabolism will do you wonders for fat loss, while not sacrificing your health in the process like low carb diets do. You can find more info on.

www.raypeat.com www.dannyroddy.com www.eastwesthealing.com www.functionalps.com

Silverspeed · Answer 2 · 2012-02-09 02:31:55Z UTC

2

I believe the LeanGains protocol prescribes more drastic daily calorie differences. Here's a calculator you can try out - http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/
Use your LBM to determine your optimal calorie intake. Just using body weight will almost always be less accurate unless you have a perfectly average BF%.
Pick a plan, define the calorie amounts, macronutrients, workout schedule, etc. and measure progress for AT LEAST two weeks. At the end, re-evaluate. Changing your body composition is generally a process of trial and error.
Try a VLC ketogenic diet (Paleo Atkins, if you will). Works very well for some people by re-sensitizing your fat cells to the various hormones that control lipolysis.
How bad is your hypothyroidism? If T3/T4 are too low, you're cold all the time, etc. then you may need medical help. Diet can't always fix everything.

If you're really hungry on what you think is a reasonable caloric intake, try eating whenever you're hungry instead of following IF. IF works better for some than others. Tens of thousands of people have lost weight effectively without it.

Good luck!

answered Feb 9 2012 at 2:31

Silverspeed
869●2●6

	I've only ever had my TSH measured and the doctor described me as "borderline" .. my TSH level was 3.54. I'm not cold all the time, I'm more often HOT all the time, especially at night. The biggest hypo symptoms I have are constipation, difficult fat loss, and sometime I'm tired in the afternoon despite adequate sleep..sometimes it's the exact opposite though. I mostly have problems with overeating. I just like to eat in general. ha. not on junk food per se..just food, meat, vegetables, you name it. I like the IF protocol best because it keeps my eating at bay and I can enjoy bigger meals – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 2:43
	BTW, i tried a VLC diet for the summer months. Did not lose weight, and still had issues with hunger even after the initial "induction" period - consuming no more than 25-30g total carbs/day. This was with exercise (weights and HIIT) – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 2:45
	oh - checked out that site btw, it's cool. it's giving me 2335 on workout days, and 1500 on rest days...2335? could that be right?? – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 3:10
	My TSH is 4.0, no symptoms though. I'm 23. But T3/T4 are the real measures of hypothyroidism. The calculator defaults to +20/-20 "recomp", so you'll want to change it to -10/-30 or some other weight-loss-oriented variant. There should be a combo box on the left for it in the calculator. If you didn't test your state of ketosis on VLC, you should try it again and test w/ some Ketostix. Eating lots and lots of protein can screw with ketosis. Also, it's extremely easy to go over 25-30g of carbs if you aren't paying meticulous attention to your food. Take a look at the Rosedale diet. – Silverspeed Feb 9 2012 at 4:54
	Thanks eric - i am very meticulous when i have a goal so i was all over making sure my carbs really were that low - they were. and it didn't do me much good. i want to stay away from VLC at this point. i think the -10/-30 is a good idea - thanks! – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 14:04

show 2 more comments

Wcc Kamal Stabby fan · Answer 3 · 2012-02-09 02:33:31Z UTC

2

Here is some info you might find useful:

http://paleodietnews.com/4154/the-paleo-diet-and-the-calorie-myth/

http://paleodietnews.com/1818/losing-weight-on-the-paleo-diet/

http://paleodietnews.com/4180/is-your-diet-negatively-affecting-your-thyroid/

answered Feb 9 2012 at 2:33

Wcc Kamal Stabby fan
10.1k●1●4●38

1

Hey, thanks for the links. i have read a lot of information pointing to a more moderate carb diet being best for the thyroid. I stated in the above comment that I tried a VLC diet for a few months in the past and it did not work out for me. After gaining information about carbs and the thyroid I stick to a higher carb diet with a lot of protein and moderate fat. Calories are the one variable I haven't messed with in a while. I have tried to just eat when hungry but that doesn't lead to weight loss for me either. I feel like i'm at my wits end >:( – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 2:49

boredomkillsya, I had problems with VLC also. I added back some starch to my diet and I feel a lot better now. – Wcc Kamal Stabby fan Feb 9 2012 at 2:51

Thanks rich - more starch does make me feel a lot better. i LOVE sweet potatoes :) – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 14:02

josh · Answer 4 · 2012-02-09 02:56:11Z UTC

2

I don't think you're eating enough. Just stop counting calories. You seem to have a good idea of what your body needs. I used to be just like you with a border-line eating disorder and freakish caloric accountability and it just left me stressed. You say you're tracking calories but it's more important where they are coming from. If you are eating plenty clean fats (grass-fed meat and butter, coconut oil, ect) and building your meals around a good dose of protein with plenty leafy greens the rest will take care of its self.

answered Feb 9 2012 at 2:56

josh
544●1●5

That's what everyone seems to say! I do agree with it but that on its own just doesn't work for me in terms of solid fat loss. I might eat a bit more on workout days (3x/week) to make the caloric difference between rest days and workout days bigger.. i just didn't want to eat too much on either day and inhibit weight loss but i've found eating below 1600 calories now is a real struggle for me without persistent hunger. Staying at 1800 yesterday (workout day) was difficult too because i was still hungry but i stuck to it because that was the number i decided on. – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 3:07

2

Thats why I say you're not eating enough. I fast 24 hours plus and don't ever feel tired or run down and hardly hungry, you are going a few hours a day and feeling hungry. I know its hard to let go, but your body is not a bomb calorimeter (what they use to measure calories in food) we are a complicated organism. – josh Feb 9 2012 at 16:10

This much is very true. That's why determining calories on a diet can be so difficult - no one can give you a good estimate. I'm going to eat a bit more but not so much that i'm stuffed all the time (obviously), i figure some hunger is good but i have needed to take hour long naps the past two days despite sufficient sleep - i just felt so worn out! – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 20:53

1

"I figure some hunger is good" and "I just felt so worn out"-- warning bells!! You are not eating enough, period. Despite how it is built up, you will not gain a lb for every extra bit of calories you put back in. Eat to satiety, and don't worry too much (I know, if someone is telling you this, it's probably too late haha, I am a worrier too). If you are deficient in calories, you body is going to hang on to any extra body fat as hard a possible, and a portion of the weight loss will turn into lean muscle tissue loss. Not a good formula! – JeJ Feb 9 2012 at 23:17

Andy Welch · Answer 5 · 2012-02-09 03:49:22Z UTC

1

Find out your lean body mass.

Start with 15 calories / pound of this. If you aren't losing, try 14, then 12, then 10...

10 calories per pound is usually worth 1% body fat loss per week unless you are over 15 to 20% body fat or so.

answered Feb 9 2012 at 3:49

Andy Welch
960●1●3

that seems like a pretty good way to go - i don't want to drop calories so fast that i get stuck on some very low calorie diet. so the gradual thing seems right, thanks – boredomkillsya Feb 9 2012 at 14:06

Lyndsay · Answer 6 · 2012-02-09 03:12:00Z UTC

Leangains and IF is ideal for folks who have only a few percentages of bodyfat to lose. Do you know your percentage of bodyfat? If you are 30% or above, your best bet is to eat very, very clean paleo, until you trim down. This means cutting out all dairy and sugar. To reach a target weight of 145 lbs ( I don't know your target, but this is healthy for 5'9 female), eat at least 95 grams of protein per day. At your height, you should eat at least 2,000 calories per day. Try to eat eggs. fried or scrambled in animal fat, for breakfast, or an egg over a small amount(4 oz.) of beef, for brekkie. Maybe a pice of fritatta with nitrate-free sausage? Kippers or oysters with eggs?

A salad for lunch, topped with chicken, olive and vinegar dressing.

Round out your dinners with plenty of veg and the remaining grams of meat as a mix-in or main dish.

Skip the fruit, nuts, and "paleo-approved" flours and starches. If you eat your fill of meat and veg for a week, you will lean out. Then, to change it up, add a night of a sweet potato side. I like homemade sweet-potato fries.

You need a combo of low-carb/slightly low-cal/higher carb surprise, to shake things up.

Chelsea · Answer 7 · 2012-02-09 23:05:45Z UTC

0

1600 calories sounds like a snack. Undereating and stress contribute to weigh gain too. Eat till satiety. Eventually your body will identify an appropriete set point.

answered Feb 9 2012 at 23:05

Chelsea
501●3●8

Calories confuse me.

7 Answers