I want to comment on a previous comment and cant figure out how

1mantruthsquad Why do you believe the Portaland Roasting company-Heuhuetenango Guatemalan coffee is the bulletproof coffee? I went to their website and they have a big photo of dry roasting coffee in the sun. Isn't this exactly what he is saying causes the mold?

I was searching for the bulletproof coffee farm in Guatemala for about when I found your comment. I want to identify the farm.

Confused

I understand Bulletproof coffee to be high-quality coffee + grassfed butter + coconut oil. I tried this today. I can say that it did help in suppressing my very healthy appetite, but mostly because it made me feel rather sick for most of the day.

Regarding the extra energy and clarity of mind, I will say this: I was sick as a dog yesterday with a nasty flu + fever. This morning I decided to have Bulletproof coffee and come to work. I completely forgot about the claims regarding extra energy and clarity. Well, throughout the morning I thought to myself, SEVERAL times: "WOW i haven't felt this sharp in at least 10 years". Was it the extra sleep I got yesterday???? Could be... or it could be the coffee.

Long story short.... I don't think BP coffee requires the marketed Upgraded coffee. Any high quality coffee is fine. In my experience, it does help control hunger via messing up your stomach, and yes it does help with energy levels and brain activity in general.

One of the only free documents I could find on toxins in coffee:

Ochratoxin A in Roasted Coffee from French Supermarkets and Transfer in Coffee Beverages: Comparison of Analysis Methods:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3153291/

"Thus, the intake of a high coffee consumer who drinks 640 mL of coffee (1 bowl of 300 mL at breakfast; 1 cup of 85 mL at 10 o’clock; 1 cup after lunch; 1 cup in the afternoon; 1 cup after dinner) will reach 530 ng. For a human weighing 60 kg, this intake via coffee corresponds to half of the tolerable daily intake of OTA established by JECFA (joint expert committee of Food and Additives) [43]. This intake of 530 ng is six times higher than the virtual safety dose (VSD) (1.5 ng/kg bw/day) established on the kidney tumors [44]! If we make the same calculation using the average OTA content (1.5 µg/kg) found in the coffee, the amount of OTA in a bowl is 31 ng; and in a cup of expresso 8.8 ng. Thus a heavy consumer will have a daily intake of 66.2 ng/day equivalent to 1.1 ng/kg bw/day, which is close to the VSD. It should be kept in mind that excessive coffee consumption (more than three cups a day) was implicated in upper tract transitional cell carcinoma and bladder cancer [45,46]. The risk is higher for heavy coffee drinkers carrying the genotype GSTP1 105–104 val. [47] and can be explained by the fact that glutathione conjugation is involved in the biotransformation of OTA into genotoxic and carcinogenic products [48,49,50] leading to DNA adducts [51,52]. As the percentage of OTA passing through the beverage depends on the origin and the roasting process of coffee, the intake evaluation should be done on the amount of OTA found in the beverage. A simple method to evaluate the amount of OTA in coffee could be to extract OTA with hot water. This extract could then be directly used on the IAC column. "

The [45] and [46] references in the above study led to these documents:

Alcohol, coffee, and bladder cancer risk: ... [Eur J Cancer Prev. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI - http://1.usa.gov/13nx2Of

Coffee consumption and bladder cancer ... [Cancer Causes Control. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI - http://1.usa.gov/13nxDzh

Basically, you are safe if you drink under 10 cups a day. Now all this said, bulletproof style coffee is great in my opinion. The toxin in coffee thing is a real deal. These people (in Europe) are testing for some types and have set "content" limits already. So if Dave is doing his own testing, good on him. Everybody else is unconcerned in America I guess?

its a scam, and anyone who buys it is a tool

Here is Dave Asprey's response to claims that his coffee is simply the Guatemalan coffee from Portland Roasters (which doesn't seem to carry the Guatemalan coffee anymore anyway). I wish he gave more detail about his "quality control steps" or about his certainty that "coffee production problems are a major health concern," but anyway, here's what he writes, which you can find here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread66674.html

"Miss Understood, you're kind of putting words in my mouth. You can get 80% reliability that your coffee is going to make you feel good if you follow the "high grade" algorithm I published on the site. That works because washed coffee is FAR superior to natural process, but Upgraded Coffee is neither - it is entirely unfermented, and the process I designed to create it has a bunch of other quality control steps involved based on the research I did. Upgraded Coffee gives you 100% reliability and costs $2/bag more than Starbucks.

"I am certain that coffee production problems are a major cause of health problems (and performance problems) in people who drink most coffee. I dream of a world where I can get clean coffee everywhere.

"So of course I went to the top ranked roaster to roast my beans. Guatemala is a big coffee producer and Portland has some Guatemalan beans too that will look similar (they are both from Guatemala after all) , but the only place you can get Upgraded Coffee (which is lab tested too btw!) is from me. Plus, you're supporting a member of the community who has never made a cent from selling coffee - everything I've made so far has gone into paying for a team and for more research and writing on the site. It's not overpriced for what it is, and it's unique."

I cannot help but smile sideways at most of the negative comments levelled at Mr. Asprey's suggestions by those who admittedly have not tried out his formulas and/or suggestions. Armchair critics are a dime a dozen and usually have little by way of their own experiences with which to formulate sound judgement. Live. Learn. Try new things and expand your horizons. Otherwise, it might be preferable to remain silent and put one's efforts toward objective understanding rather than rampant lambasting. Be well, beloved monkeys.

I went all out on the bulletproof diet for a full month. BP coffee in the morning and grass fed beef, spinach etc. Lost 25 pounds in 30 days and feel great. It's definitely not a placebo. The coffee clearly gives you more energy and like someone said earlier, Dave gives you ways to find BP low-toxin coffees in your city right on his blog. I don't even buy his Upgraded stuff but I drink the BP coffee every morning now and feel great. Dave has some great insight on diet - it really has transformed my life not to sound completely cheesy. Try it for a month, it won't kill you. I have no doubt everyone on this board will feel better.

Fast. Or eat. That's my opinion. Dumping a bunch of calories in your coffee seems silly. It's not magic. I enjoy clean coffee like many do. Does anyone REALLY enjoy a ton of butter fat in their coffee? Or are they just on some bandwagon that justifies their desire to eat when they are supposed to be fasting (because fasting is what they say they are trying to do)?

I tried the coffee and I like it. I can see how people would be skeptical of the bulletproof diet and Dave Asprey's general take on nutrition. I think it's important for us all to be skeptical but I see a passionate guy that has a lot to say. He pretty much turned my world upside-down when I first heard him on the Joe Rogan podcast. But I did a lot of research and decided that trying it for myself was the only way to know... I'll say that he has a very informative podcast with many interesting guests!

By the way, I am blogging about it here: http://bulletproofcoffee.wordpress.com/

For me the magic of bulletproof coffee is the idea of blending fat into a warm beverage. Others may have suggested it but Dave Asprey really hit it home for me. I blend up a tea + butter + coconut oil concoction ever morning and drink it from a thermos during the day. This makes the macros I'm trying to hit for ketosis/weight loss so much easier. It also saves me me money and time.

Dave Asprey turned me on to the therapeutic uses of HRV and breathing techniques (although I had already been using HRV to track workout recovery) and I definitely owe him for this. Also, Tim Ferris's new book is whole bunches of fun.

Will this work if I only use coconut oil and no butter in the coffee?

Don't use butter. Use Ghee, it's much better and it's like butter concentrate. Properly prepared ghee (or high quality ghee) contains up to 97% of pure and clean butter fat. Of course the best ghee is made from grass feed butter.

You may not get that creamy effect in your coffee after blending it with Ghee, but you will surely get superior product. Ghee is healthier because has no milk proteins (casein) and probably no opioids which make many people dumb (milk, cream and cheese all have opioids).

Opioids is stuff in mammalian milk which makes infants come back for more. That's why many people can't stop drinking heavy cream, even if they are full.

I hate it. I prefer organo told. have ull heard of it?? http://mycapturepage.com/cp23.php?id=470

The fresher and less processed your food the better. Coffee, beef, butter, anything. Asprey's set-up does not require anyone to buy his products, it's convenient as he's already done the legwork of tracking down the freshest (if you believe him). I've decided to follow his plan, but have sourced everything out myself. I'm not bothering with MCT oil, just virgin coconut oil. I went with Guatemalen single-source beans from Sweet Maria's. I think they're wet processed, I can't remember if I was able to identify that or not.

Depending on how much volume is lost in roasting, it may be worth it to buy Asprey's product. We'll see.

I have a friend who is a coffee roaster in northern Wisconsin. I've been drinking his coffee via mail order for years. Haven't lived there for a long time, so I only talk to him a couple times a year. But it's a one man operation, with a peanut roaster on the back porch.

I can't speak to the bulletproof concerns, but I can say that Harry's roasts are awesome, and I love supporting a small sole-proprietor business.

Here's a link: http://www.nwcoffeemills.com/

I like darker coffees so usually go for the french roast. I also get a kick out of the traveler blend, which IIRC, is so named because you can walk around the yard with a cup, and if it gets cold, it still tastes good.

Here are some good bets for mycotoxin free coffee brands broken up into mechanical processing & wet processing : blog.healclick.com/mycotoxin-free-coffee-brands/

I wasn't too fond of paying $25 per lb of coffee, and it turns out many coffees that meet the criteria of mechanical (or wet) process / high elevation / single-origin (or better yet, single-estate) can be found for much closer to what you'd pay for any organic/fair-trade beans.

Tried this a couple of times last week. Used regular coffee because the apartment complex we live in offers freshly brewed Starbucks coffee around the clock. I know, quite a perk. We've been living here three years and the coffee pot was scrapped a year or so ago, as it was just collecting dust.

I did 16 ounces of coffee with 1 TBSP of Kerrygold and 1 TBSP coconut oil. I did this three times. I was still hungry an hour or so later.

My MCT oil just arrived...I want to give this another try. When I use the BPC concoction, I want to be able to not eat anything until my lunch meal. If I can get that to happen, I will invest in the Upgraded coffee and a proper brewing mechanism. So, has anyone found that you really do need 2 TBSP of the Kerrygold and 1 TBSP of the MCT in order to ward off hunger? I know the true recipe calls for 2/3rds of a stick of Kerrygold or something like that, but my current goal is weight loss. I don't want to be ingesting additional calories. My current breakfast is 426 calories (approximated by a food logging site).

Any thoughts?

I emailed a roaster about which of their 20 green coffee beans were wet processed and they responded that only one of their beans was dry processed... so in this casea majority of high quality coffee beans are going to be mold free, Daves using the mold for marketing to scare you into buying his coffee. Just find out if your source uses wet processing.

Its a lot cheaper to get it from somewhere else

Sweet Marias seems cool I like it cause they tell you where it was grown, the altitude and whether its wet or dry processed

How to Choose mycotoxin free coffee

I like BP coffee. I am not sure that coffee itself is the best thing for me in my little adrenal hole, but that's another PH topic.

I think the flavor is perfect, a medium roast, it brews nicely in the aeropress, and whether with the butter/mct or with heavy cream it is darn tasty.

FWIW, I like the salted butter in it. I like salt.

I think Dave is likely the real deal - he makes money off his site. But he states everything upfront, from his history to his supplements to his prejudices. Grounding is weird, but it might have something going for it. Who doesn't feel better after sleeping outside on the earth or after walking around barefoot? Mycotoxins? Yeah that's freaky. There's a lot we don't know and finding the balance between stressing about these things versus doing really positive healthy choices for our life - that's the trick.

I am fine with his endeavors. If we were not allowed to make money from the things we were good at or have knowledge about... WTF.

Wow. For a way of eating that supposedly provides you with all the energy you could ever need, you paleo peeps are WAY dependent on your coffee, aren't you? This thread is like meth-heads discussing different cooking techniques...lol...

I've been doing bulletproof coffee, and tea as well to avoid too much caffeine (green tea + holy basil) for a few months now, gotta say, it's very addictive, and very very good stuff. :)

Kicks me right into ketosis if I drink it 1st thing in the morning and skip breakfast. Has me feeling awesome the whole day.

Recently the Rockerfeller Center Farmer's Market opened up again, and one of the vendors has sweet cream butter from grassfed cows. Totally loving this stuff.

We've been drinking bullet proof coffee for 3 months now. Having studied Sally Fallon, etc, and having had years of celiac, when a friend turned me on to the Bullet Proof coffee, I immediately tried it. It's delicious and powers you for about 6 to 8 hours without the come down after 45 minutes or so from having put sugar in your coffee. I highly recommend this one. We haven't had any other coffee since we started this.

We buy high altitude organic coffee at the local store and haven't bought anything from his site.

The easiest way to find out if something works is to try it, rather than speculate on a forum. ;-)

Anyone know of a comparable (but cheaper) coffee I can order online? I've scavenged coffee-selling sites but frankly I am far from a coffee connoisseur, even taking Dave's advice into account. THANKS! :)

I have no idea whether it is a scam or not, and personally I don't really care. What I do care about is that, using Dave's parameters, I found the best coffee ever at a local roastery. I never understood what people were talking about when they said that if you're drinking good coffee, it shouldn't need sugar. It's true! I blend my coffee with a tsp of butter and a tsp of coconut oil. Tried it with more fat, but just couldn't stomach it. I also eat breakfast, so I don't need it to fast. In general, I am pretty skeptical of Dave, and hearing that he takes thyroid hormones and testosterone, which he fails to mention, makes me even more skeptical. I wouldn't buy his coffee, but I'm grateful that he's educated me a bit about coffee in general!

There are two totally unrelated issues with Bulletproof coffee:

1) lower mycotoxin coffee and specifically his "Upgraded coffee" beans

2) adding grass-fed butter to your coffee.

number 2, is relatively simple: butter replaces cream; it can be greasy if you don't emulsify it; some like it some don't; it works for the tibetans and their yak butter. give it a try -- no big deal.

number 1 is more complex. Bulletproof Upgraded coffee is Portland Roasting Guatemalan coffee -- you can go to their website and buy it directly slightly cheaper. I can't figure out if the Upgraded Coffee is just the regular Portland Roasting Guatemalan coffee packaged in his packaging, or if he gets special lower-mold versions of their coffee. I suspect the former. I would also be interested in the level of mold/mycotoxins in other organic or special high grade coffee. It is hard to tell.

Here is a detailed assessment of his coffee claims from: http://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/19863/are-fungal-toxins-a-significant-problem-in-coffee-and-if-so-can-they-be-avoide

The blog post: * Is (so far) the first and only one I've ever seen stating mold to be a practical problem in coffee - in the sense of being present in a high enough quantity to matter (mold grows everywhere). * Uses all kinds of weasel words to describe symptoms ("edgy", "cranky", "useless mentally"). * Describes symptoms that are well in line with plain old caffeine withdrawal. * Frequently links to other blog posts on the same site, most of which are "top 10 ways" and "top 5 reasons" fluff pieces. * Manages to cite and thoroughly misuse two studies: one from 1995, and another from 2003. Both are about Ochratoxin A (OA), which isn't even the biggest risk; Aflatoxin is. (More on these later). * Advertises a fairly expensive product, sold by the same author.

The author: * Is, according to his LinkedIn profile (which I refuse to link here), the VP of Cloud Security at Trend Micro - a Silicon Valley tech company. Neither he nor his employer has any experience in human biology or nutrition. * Makes all sorts of fantastical claims about himself: "He upgraded his brain by >20 IQ points, lowered his biological age, and lost 100 lbs without using calories or exercise." * Has an entire page of testimonials, which he frequently cites as "evidence". * Has an entire site dedicated to product-peddling, including the ubiquitous six-second abs and even a $60 "earthing mat", if you can believe that. Go ahead, see for yourself. * Is, in short, not much different from every other con artist and MLM out there on the web selling colon cleansers and magnetic bracelets; he just likes to use technobabble instead of conventional pseudoscience, hoping to woo the geeks out there who don't fall for the usual snake oil.

The facts and studies: * The largest sample tested was just 60 samples of beans, and was tested from only one source (Brazil). This is fine for individual studies, but in the real world there are hundreds (thousands?) of sources from many different countries. It's safe to say that the current studies don't even come close to testing all of the coffee from around the world. * Both OA studies found an incidence rate of approximately 50% for the OA-producing mold, at wildly different concentrations (minimum 0.2 ppb in one study, maximum 7.8 ppb in another). * Neither the FDA nor the EFSA actually have a legal limit for OA, but the EFSA "suggests" a limit of 8 µg/kg, which means that even the worst samples are below the very conservative legal limit. * One study actually tested the incidence of OA in brewed coffee, not just the beans, and found a maximum of 7.8 ppb in the brew (that's 7.8 µg per 1 kg of ground coffee). For reference, there's an EFSA directive recommending an intake of no more than 120 ng/kg (body weight) per week, which comes out to 8.4 µg/day for a 150 lb/70 kg individual, or 1.2 µg/day. * Based on the worst contamination of brewed coffee (7.8 µg/kg), doing the math, you'd have to consume the brew from 150 g of ground coffee per day. That's about half a standard-sized tin of coffee. Per day. * The 3rd study (the one rumtscho linked to, not cited by the blogger/con artist) looked at Aflatoxin, not Ochratoxin, which actually is regulated by the FDA at a maximum of 20 ppb. This study also showed approximately a 50% incidence rate after roasting, with the highest concentration of AT being 16 µg/kg for decaf (less with caffeine). So that means with any random cup of coffee you have up to a 50% chance of consuming an amount of AT that's still well below the FDA limit - that's very nearly zero risk. * None of the studies test the rate of mold growth on beans while in storage under various conditions (temperature, humidity, etc.), so we can't comment on what happens in storage.

So I guess if you want to really be on the safe side, only buy as much coffee as you think you can use in a week or two.

Conclusion:

Don't believe everything that people tell you - especially people with something to sell. Unless you're drinking gallons of coffee a day, brewed coffee is perfectly safe. [end of quote from other site]

As for a general assessment of his website: I think the diet info is generally very good, and the infographic is especially good. But there are some very scammy elements to his website. He recently delved into investment advice and even directed readers to a specific investment adviser/manager and the investment advice is complete and utter nonsense -- literally very obvious snake oil "I-have-a-secret-formula-for-beating-the-market". Total hucksterism. It really makes the whole website suspect for me and makes me suspect the coffee and anything else he is selling. I suspect he read Ferris' 4 hour work week book, and this website is 4 hour work week business all aiming to make money and I would not trust anything on the site unless it refers to specific authoritative sources. Much of the diet advice does refer to specific authoritative sources, but most of it is just basic paleo conventional wisdom that most here would not find controversial.

In short, I think the diet infographic is the best thing on the site, and I would be very hesitant to trust any of the other claims aobut products or anything else on the site without more transparency and sources that back up the claims.

Buying the actual coffee sold on his site isn't the key. If you have a good quality source of coffee, it should be completely fine. Like someone else said, he's done a great job at marketing the idea of MCT fats (MCT or CO) and grass-fed butter blended in the coffee to make money.

It's an idea anyone could have tinkered with he's just found a way to profit from it. I can respect that. It's more about the combo than his actual coffee.

As an upset I have run out of Bulletproof coffee and replaced it with other expensive Intelligensia and Crop to Cup coffee and I feel the same. And the Intelligensia tastes better.

Here's my response, and it echoes what others have said.

I'm a fan of Dave Asprey. A big fan. However, like anything, Bulletproof coffee is something you have to try if you're a regular coffee drinker. Those who are, like daily, it's very easy to incorporate and test. Like others, I'm always looking for a new edge to my morning/after coffee.

The stuff is legit. At least N=1. I feel great when I use MCT Oil + Butter. I also use Cinnamon + Stevia and blend it for a minute. The result is a fabulous, filling and creamy drink that can last a few hours (I generally make 32-40 oz at a time and carry it in a thermos).

I have a pretty demanding job, at least one that requires a cognitive function on-point most of the time. I've definitely seen benefits not only getting started in the day, but maintaining a high-level performance for a longer period of time. Maybe some of it is placebo, thinking I'm consuming this great stuff that should make me perform higher.

However, if this isn't enough for me to buy-in, I've tried a few other things with it. Using it DURING a heavy strength/Crossfit workout. I'm not sure if it's the MCT Oil (most have tried this as a pre-workout in the past) or the caffeine (or a combo), but it works. It's works great. After letting it cool, I've sipped on BPC for an hour and been able to complete things I've never done before. Again, maybe there is some natural progression going on here, but in-comparison to previous stuff, it's seemed to work better.

So in conclusion, maybe it's not magic, but for two things I take very seriously (work and fitness), I've seen serious benefits both physically and mentally since I started making BPC (or some personal variance) everyday.