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Ray Peat, again?

by (2977)
Updated about 20 hours ago
Created July 20, 2011 at 7:10 PM

This has been asked before, in particular by ROB (here), and there was some good discussion around it. The general consensus was that Ray Peat is something of a whack-job with interesting ideas.

But his name has been popping up more, recently. Danny Roddy (who collaborates on Chris Kresser's podcast on The Healthy Skeptic) is very impressed by him. I see several wonderful folks from PaleoHacks mentioning Peat's name. Lately I've been listening to some interviews and have been, frankly, blown away.

What's interesting to me isn't that I think he's 100% "right", but that he totally comes out of left field with an amazing amount of expertise and an intimate knowledge of history. This informed perspective stirs the Paleo 'pot' in a very refreshing way and challenges the experts to think harder about their own assumptions.

For just one example, on Josh & Jeanne Rubin's podcast I heard him describing how hypothyroidism was typically diagnosed in the 1930's: by measuring the uptake of Oxygen in respiration, and observing the muscular reflex when the Achilles Heel is tapped: Healthy thyroid hormone levels meant the body was more efficient at consuming oxygen and the nerves were more efficient at impulse transmission. Then he goes into a lot of detail about the processes involved and what they mean.

That's great stuff! There's LOTS more, some of it completely alien to what we've learned is proper nutrition, and a lot of it entirely compatible. If you want to get totally overwhelmed, check out his website and read a few of the articles - you'll see what I mean.

At this point I'm just digesting the ideas and have made only minor tweaks. In particular I'm consuming yet more bone broth, and I stopped some amino acid supplementation until I know more. I'll probably never start drinking orange juice or eating ice cream though...

Has anyone become a Peat devotee? I think his ideas are very useful even if only to challenge our assumptions, and should be thought about even if they aren't all correct - has anyone put some of his ideas into useful context for the Paleo crowd? Challenged them properly?

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8933 · April 05, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Ray Peat gave me free information 3 times. I even told him I'd pay for the information, he ignored that and just answered my question like that. So no, he's not interested in money.

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8933 · April 05, 2012 at 10:09 AM

He's okay with tubers but like Meredith says 40+ minutes of cooking, he's not a fan of sweet potatoes I believe, and finds fruit to be superior because of sugar and less toxins.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 7:19 PM

So true, Tikivana - I'm swamped with technology via work and I still print articles out, in spite of my "green" sentiments. Go figure.

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 6:56 PM

@Mallory - just look up Ray Peat on FB and you'll see Mer and TMS all_over_there :) Just listened to a podcast and very impressed. His writing is intelligent as hell.

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837 · July 21, 2011 at 4:25 PM

Kindle + Instapaper = tons of articles on your Kindle for the beach or bus!

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2231 · July 21, 2011 at 4:23 PM

i wanna know some more.... wheres the FB stuff? someone add me!!!

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 3:42 PM

Well TMS and Mer - I guess I'm going to the Peat side :) Besides, y'all talking about it on FB makes me wanna come on over. @TMS - do you have the link where he discusses the decrease in muscle meats?

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5132 · July 21, 2011 at 3:09 PM

I've never heard him say limit fruit. He seems to be encouraging fruit consumption. Now, McDougall's position is Paleo (Cordain, De Vany) with regard to dairy: dairy induces T1 diabetes, cancer, chronic and degenerative diseases. He's a hardcore guy who believes that vegetarian / vegan diets provide all essential nutrients.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 2:43 PM

Oh yes indeed they do! The options are numerous!

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM

Like just about everything else I learn (in areas completely unrelated to food, too), it's mostly about getting out of one's own damn way.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 2:33 PM

I used up quite a bit of paper at work, printing some of those out.

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 2:24 PM

"regeneration is the spontaneous result of the disappearance of restraint" - Ray says it better!

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 1:05 PM

@ Patrik - I hate to say this, because I want people who are interested to support Dr. Peat financially, but I have two of his books and pretty much all of the information is contained within the free articles on his site. I still think people should buy the books though, what else are ya gonna bring to the beach?

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13692 · July 21, 2011 at 12:35 PM

Great comment LuckyB!

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12847 · July 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM

Mcdougall does not allow more then a couple pieces of fruit on his diet and says to totally eliminate it if your trying to lower cholesterol or lose weight. He does this because he think it raises triglycerides, which it probably does in some people. Don't forget that Dr. lustig is just a researcher and can have wrong conclusions. Fructose only starts you on a road to insulin resistance if your sedentary and that's according to lustig, who knows if that is even true though it could come down to many factors(PUFA consumption being a major one).

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12407 · July 21, 2011 at 10:25 AM

and a good number of the paleo community advocating lc or vlc but many who have been tinkering for awhile and many of the main bloggers and writers on the subject are shunning advocating a particular macronutrient ratio or threshold. keeping the toxins out of your diet and eating nutrient dense foods seems much more important than that.

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12407 · July 21, 2011 at 10:23 AM

listened to his answer on the paleo diet. i think what people, even some very smart people, don't seem to get through their head is that many people- i'd daresay most- aren't going around trying to find frozen pterodactyl at wholefoods. it's not trying to find what foods those people were eating but more importantly what toxins they weren't eating. that's why most of the screwed up "paleos" think their issue has to do with diet when in reality their issue is that they perceived paleo to be about macronutrient ratio. i can sympathize with how they feel that way with some of the info out there

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 7:40 AM

Strauss makes a great ice-cream as well.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 5:12 AM

" I like that he seems more focused on eliminating the things that limit our ability to adapt - in removing these limitations, we are able to achieve balance, health, mental creativity." - well said, M.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 5:09 AM

I'm glad you undeleted your Answer, Meredith! I just started in the podcasts (skipping all the non RP ones for now), and will listen for the charming (and charmed!) caller to this last one! I get a big kick out of books along those lines - somehow they feel like they penetrate into the Mysteries of the Universe. Great fun!

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 5:02 AM

I had huge problems with ice cream. At my last job I could eat all the Haagen Dazs I wanted - for free. And eat it I did. So I'm a wee bit nervous about putting any back in. Maybe later though who knows. Probably not HD though - my 12 yo daughter is boycotting it since they are owned by Nestle - this is a HUGE sacrifice on her part so I'm being supportive.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 4:56 AM

All the articles - it'd take a LONG time to get through, and then you'd have to start over because there is so much new info.

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10502 · July 21, 2011 at 2:14 AM

@ThomasSeay -- uhm --- Ray Peat doesn't give his info for free -- why do you claim that? See here: http://raypeat.com/bookstore/

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 1:51 AM

You don't think you're charming? That's ridiculous Thomas. I know that all of these folks are going to tune into your podcast!

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3521 · July 21, 2011 at 1:07 AM

Since asking that question I have adapted some of his ideas, specifically eating more dairy and less muscle meat, and I feel more relaxed and energetic. Sleep has also improved a ton. I was hesitant to add dairy back in, but after 2 weeks I seemed to have no problems digesting it.

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 12:58 AM

Tubers cooked for close to an hour with lots of butter and coconut oil.

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4620 · July 21, 2011 at 12:41 AM

Quite interesting. I've been working on a low, balanced PUFA intake, which reduced to a few pimples here and there. But only when I started including regular oysters and liver did pimples/blemishes become a thing of the past. And yes, Haagen-Dazs is godly. I think I might continue this pint-a-day thing for awhile. :)

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 12:33 AM

Glad you "outted" yourself. I support you.

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 12:28 AM

That's interesting about the acne. Haagen-Dazs ice-cream is AMAZING. I have cut back from a quart a day to about a pint a day.

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15976 · July 21, 2011 at 12:28 AM

Ray peat is a goof ball. OJ and ice cream, genius.

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 12:26 AM

And to add to the above, if I want to learn how to be charming, I will go to Meredith! I know that I am not charming, but if I wanted to be, I would go see Meredith.

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 12:19 AM

nice to meet you :)

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16131 · July 20, 2011 at 11:56 PM

OKAY! I un-deleted my earlier response. I'm out of the closet so to speak- I'm all over that guy's FB fan page - it's embarrassing - the level of enthusiasm I can muster !

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2977 · July 20, 2011 at 11:50 PM

I've started on the Josh Rubin interviews and have been really impressed - will definitely listen to that one! I'd love to hear him as a guest on Chris Kresser's podcast.

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78422 · July 20, 2011 at 11:45 PM

Yeah, until these AMAZING interviews with Peat came along, I wasn't quite sure how much to reduce muscle meats. It would appear the answer is "DRAMATICALLY" decrease. More gelatinous cuts, more dairy, about the same amount of eggs and, of course, LOTS OF FRUIT. Some coconut oil. Good stuff.

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78422 · July 20, 2011 at 11:41 PM

Meredith, I am with you. On Paleo, I was having increased stress levels and I have seen that greatly diminished since I have started easting more in accordance with Peat's guidelines.

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16131 · July 20, 2011 at 9:43 PM

Fruit, less muscle meat, more shellfish, but above all I think the raw carrot salad - I have some estrogen dominance issues and I think that it's helped a bit. If you have an hour a five, you should read the very last article on his site. Also, the ice cream thingy has been many folks' favorite - I've avoided dairy for so long that I think it'll take some time and planning to work it back in in any quantity - where'd those enzymes go?!?

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2977 · July 20, 2011 at 9:16 PM

I have to say: I just love that feeling of discombobulation in my brain! It's a kind of "I don't know shit and isn't that great!" feeling. Everything was pretty loose in there already from my switch from SAD to Paleo and hadn't yet 'gelled' to rock solid assumptions. Now it feels like someone turned on an electric drill... Whacky metaphor aside, which recommendations have worked for you best?

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16131 · July 20, 2011 at 9:04 PM

Yes, my stress levels have come right on down to zilch. My sleep is much better as well. My brain is also stimulated as Ray's stuff is pretty heady :)

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2977 · July 20, 2011 at 9:00 PM

You were one of the "wonderful folks from PaleoHacks" I was referring to :-) Have you made any significant changes because of his work? I'll check out the FB page... Thx!

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16131 · July 20, 2011 at 8:52 PM

I answered but deleted because I don't think I answered your question adequately. But I am a Peat fan - he has a pretty active FB fan page too.

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16131 · July 20, 2011 at 7:42 PM

Oh, I called into the latest Josh and Jeannie show - Ray was quite a sweetie pie and a gentleman.

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16131 · July 20, 2011 at 7:41 PM

I am enjoying exploring Ray's work. I've been reading his articles online for quite some time, but because of the blogtalk radio interviews as well as the KMUD interviews he has started to become more accessible, so I am revisiting him.

I like that his point of view is the opposite of reductionism, I think he said that the more we break something down into its component parts, the more abstract it becomes. I like that he is holistic. I like that he seems more focused on eliminating the things that limit our ability to adapt - in removing these limitations, we are able to achieve balance, health, mental creativity.

Recently I read a mainstream article by Dr. Rosedale (I posted a question about it here) and one thing that stood out to me was that Dr. Rosedale mentioned that serotonin and SSRIs cause osteoporosis. That excess serotonin in the gut is inflammatory. Ray has been talking about this for years, maybe decades. So, I think he may just be on to something.

I loves me a good health book read - kinda like some enjoy a romance novel. I'm a sucker for just about all of them (I've got 2 of Ray's books). Ray, he's also a smartypants and I like that.

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 2:24 PM

"regeneration is the spontaneous result of the disappearance of restraint" - Ray says it better!

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 5:12 AM

" I like that he seems more focused on eliminating the things that limit our ability to adapt - in removing these limitations, we are able to achieve balance, health, mental creativity." - well said, M.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM

Like just about everything else I learn (in areas completely unrelated to food, too), it's mostly about getting out of one's own damn way.

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16131 · July 20, 2011 at 7:42 PM

Oh, I called into the latest Josh and Jeannie show - Ray was quite a sweetie pie and a gentleman.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 5:09 AM

I'm glad you undeleted your Answer, Meredith! I just started in the podcasts (skipping all the non RP ones for now), and will listen for the charming (and charmed!) caller to this last one! I get a big kick out of books along those lines - somehow they feel like they penetrate into the Mysteries of the Universe. Great fun!

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5132 · July 21, 2011 at 4:31 AM

Ray Peat has a twin in John McDougall. McDougall claims that sugar does not "cause" or induce diabetes, because most human populations lived off of starchy diets. He equates sugar (i.e., glucose and fructose) with starch (pure glucose w/minimal fructose). His argument: the Japanese eat white rice (which is pure starch like yams and yuca) and do not become diabetic. Therefore, sugar is not the problem. (He believes meat, dairy and fatty diets induce T2 diabetes).

I'm not sure if he still has this article up at his site. But the problem seems not understanding the role of fructose. Fructose is a hepatoxin according to Dr. Lustig, and will induce fatty liver and start you on the road to insulin resistance. I don't quite follow Peat's position, but McDougall's position seems to be a styoopid one.

Starchy veggies like white rice, sweet potatoes, yams, yuca, etc. have minimal fructose. That's why they're "safe starches"; it's not just that they do not have much food toxins a la PHD. They're pure energy sources. However, fruit, sugar-laden flour products and sweetened food additives (HFCS, barbeque sauce, salad dressing, agave nectar, etc.) have a ton of fructose.

It's pretty shocking that these nutrition gurus can't tell the difference between pure glucose (starch) and sucrose (glucose and fructose). According to Gary Taubes, this is the same argument made eons ago by I believe either Ancel Keys or Walter Willet. That the Japanese not becoming insulin resistant demonstrates that sugar does not cause diabetes.

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12847 · July 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM

Mcdougall does not allow more then a couple pieces of fruit on his diet and says to totally eliminate it if your trying to lower cholesterol or lose weight. He does this because he think it raises triglycerides, which it probably does in some people. Don't forget that Dr. lustig is just a researcher and can have wrong conclusions. Fructose only starts you on a road to insulin resistance if your sedentary and that's according to lustig, who knows if that is even true though it could come down to many factors(PUFA consumption being a major one).

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5132 · July 21, 2011 at 3:09 PM

I've never heard him say limit fruit. He seems to be encouraging fruit consumption. Now, McDougall's position is Paleo (Cordain, De Vany) with regard to dairy: dairy induces T1 diabetes, cancer, chronic and degenerative diseases. He's a hardcore guy who believes that vegetarian / vegan diets provide all essential nutrients.

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4620 · July 21, 2011 at 12:13 AM

I wouldn't call myself a devotee, but I definitely am down with some of his ideas. I try to buy bone-in cuts of meat with lots of connective tissue whenever possible. I eat oranges regularly. A steady intake of vitamin A, zinc, and copper (via liver, butter, and shellfish) has helped incredibly with acne and premature greying hair.

Actually, it's been so hot here lately that I gave into temptation and have eaten about a pint of real ice cream each day for the past few. No joke, I feel amazing. Most likely because ice cream is delicious and my reward pathways are firing off like crazy, though. ;)

ETA: What does he have to say about tubers? I haven't delved into all of the overwhelming Peat literature yet.

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 12:19 AM

nice to meet you :)

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 12:58 AM

Tubers cooked for close to an hour with lots of butter and coconut oil.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 2:43 PM

Oh yes indeed they do! The options are numerous!

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 12:28 AM

That's interesting about the acne. Haagen-Dazs ice-cream is AMAZING. I have cut back from a quart a day to about a pint a day.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 5:02 AM

I had huge problems with ice cream. At my last job I could eat all the Haagen Dazs I wanted - for free. And eat it I did. So I'm a wee bit nervous about putting any back in. Maybe later though who knows. Probably not HD though - my 12 yo daughter is boycotting it since they are owned by Nestle - this is a HUGE sacrifice on her part so I'm being supportive.

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4620 · July 21, 2011 at 12:41 AM

Quite interesting. I've been working on a low, balanced PUFA intake, which reduced to a few pimples here and there. But only when I started including regular oysters and liver did pimples/blemishes become a thing of the past. And yes, Haagen-Dazs is godly. I think I might continue this pint-a-day thing for awhile. :)

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 7:40 AM

Strauss makes a great ice-cream as well.

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8933 · April 05, 2012 at 10:09 AM

He's okay with tubers but like Meredith says 40+ minutes of cooking, he's not a fan of sweet potatoes I believe, and finds fruit to be superior because of sugar and less toxins.

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78422 · July 20, 2011 at 11:39 PM

Hate to say that I am a devotee of anybody, but I am very impressed by Peat. For one thing, it's apparent that a lot of people in our stress-filled world have issues with cortisol and adrenaline. He addresses that. He addresses the thyroid issues many people are having. In other words, instead of SPECULATING about what some paleolithic ancestor might have eaten and have us ape that model, he addresses the needs of us as we are. He goes to the root of the matter and what's really refreshing is that the guy gives away his information for free and, if you do need more information (in the form of a book or his newsletter) or a consultation, he does not charge you an arm and a leg, like Kris Kringle or others of his ilk. If I want glorified sewing needles put in my butt, I will go to Kris Kringle. If I want physiology information, I'll go to Ray Peat.

I have learned so much from the Ray Peat interviews on KMUD (see the "Friday Night Talks" every THIRD Friday every month) or the several interviews of him by Josh Rubin, such as this one, in which a mysterious woman-the first caller-basically asks him his opinion of Paleo.

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16131 · July 20, 2011 at 11:56 PM

OKAY! I un-deleted my earlier response. I'm out of the closet so to speak- I'm all over that guy's FB fan page - it's embarrassing - the level of enthusiasm I can muster !

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13692 · July 21, 2011 at 12:35 PM

Great comment LuckyB!

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10502 · July 21, 2011 at 2:14 AM

@ThomasSeay -- uhm --- Ray Peat doesn't give his info for free -- why do you claim that? See here: http://raypeat.com/bookstore/

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 12:33 AM

Glad you "outted" yourself. I support you.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 4:56 AM

All the articles - it'd take a LONG time to get through, and then you'd have to start over because there is so much new info.

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2977 · July 20, 2011 at 11:50 PM

I've started on the Josh Rubin interviews and have been really impressed - will definitely listen to that one! I'd love to hear him as a guest on Chris Kresser's podcast.

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12407 · July 21, 2011 at 10:23 AM

listened to his answer on the paleo diet. i think what people, even some very smart people, don't seem to get through their head is that many people- i'd daresay most- aren't going around trying to find frozen pterodactyl at wholefoods. it's not trying to find what foods those people were eating but more importantly what toxins they weren't eating. that's why most of the screwed up "paleos" think their issue has to do with diet when in reality their issue is that they perceived paleo to be about macronutrient ratio. i can sympathize with how they feel that way with some of the info out there

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 1:05 PM

@ Patrik - I hate to say this, because I want people who are interested to support Dr. Peat financially, but I have two of his books and pretty much all of the information is contained within the free articles on his site. I still think people should buy the books though, what else are ya gonna bring to the beach?

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12407 · July 21, 2011 at 10:25 AM

and a good number of the paleo community advocating lc or vlc but many who have been tinkering for awhile and many of the main bloggers and writers on the subject are shunning advocating a particular macronutrient ratio or threshold. keeping the toxins out of your diet and eating nutrient dense foods seems much more important than that.

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16131 · July 21, 2011 at 1:51 AM

You don't think you're charming? That's ridiculous Thomas. I know that all of these folks are going to tune into your podcast!

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78422 · July 21, 2011 at 12:26 AM

And to add to the above, if I want to learn how to be charming, I will go to Meredith! I know that I am not charming, but if I wanted to be, I would go see Meredith.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 2:33 PM

I used up quite a bit of paper at work, printing some of those out.

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2977 · July 21, 2011 at 7:19 PM

So true, Tikivana - I'm swamped with technology via work and I still print articles out, in spite of my "green" sentiments. Go figure.

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837 · July 21, 2011 at 4:25 PM

Kindle + Instapaper = tons of articles on your Kindle for the beach or bus!

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8933 · April 05, 2012 at 10:12 AM

Ray Peat gave me free information 3 times. I even told him I'd pay for the information, he ignored that and just answered my question like that. So no, he's not interested in money.

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334 · February 22, 2012 at 2:56 PM

Thanks, all you PaleoHacks - I hadn't heard of Ray Peat before today, but I'm off to do some research. I'm loving Paleo, but my hormones are all over the place and my sleep is rubbish, so here's hoping there'll be plenty in there to interest me.

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-8 · July 01, 2013 at 1:24 PM

"Dr. Peat examining plaque build-up in the arteries?"

Yes, low thyroid function is a cause. Broda Barnes wrote a whole book about it.

(this is a comment to sifter, I can't comment on his post for some reason)

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0 · July 01, 2013 at 5:13 AM

SO.. great. Your thyroid will be regulated, but is Dr. Peat examining plaque build-up in the arteries? Lots of dairy, fructose? Surely, the science has to be evidence-based one way or another?! I can buy that perhaps it's the PUFA's in the grains, rather than the grains themselves, that cause problems. But are there not numerous studies linking meat with cancer and heart disease? With inflamed arterial endothelium linings? Are the PUFAs from fruits 'with seeds' like blueberries really more harmful than the benefits bestowed upon the body by eating said blueberries? Inquiring minds wish to know.....

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0 · November 22, 2012 at 4:12 PM

And from 1985!

Henningsen N.C.: The sodium pump and energy regulation: some new aspects for essential hypertension, diabetes II and severe overweight. Klinische Wochenschrift 63 Suppl 3:4-8. 1985.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2582182

Abstract: "There is a growing evidence for that in modern societies the function of the cellular sodium-potassium pump (membrane-bound Na+ K+ ATPase) in several tissues in man cannot respond adequately to demands. This is not seen in any other free-living vertebrates on this earth. The clearly unphysiological very high intake of sodium-chloride (salt) and also alcohol is definitely playing an important role in the development of the common degenerating metabolic aberrations, e.g. essential hypertension, diabetes II and severe over-weight, in man. The special and overall important role of the sodium-potassium pump for optimal cellular function and regeneration with special reference to the vascular tissues is presented and discussed."

Already forgot this 27 years old article! The floor gas sodium-potassium pump (turbo pump) is not enough.... :-((

And I have: Sándor Z.: Equivalency law in the metal requirement of the living organisms. Acta Alimentaria 27 (4): 389-395. 1998. http://padre.uw.hu/ekvis/eqlaw.htm http://padre.uw.hu/ekvis/ekvitorv.html

This Eq. law is a simple chemical rule: The alkaline metal requirement (potassium + sodium) is chemically equivalent with that of polyvalent metals (calcium + magnesium + zinc + iron etc.). Because, is a strict chemical stoichiometrical rule of the cation exchange processes is that they proceed with the exchange of an equivalent amount of positively charged counter-ions. The counter-ions in our body = sodium + potassium.

This article is 14 years old, but nobody deals with (cares about) him!

Less counter-ion = trouble, Much counter-ion = trouble, Very much counter-ion = catastrophe

And: 2006 WHO

http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity/reducingsaltintake_EN.pdf

on page 26: "Several national and international agencies recommend individual dietary sodium intakes of no more than 100 mmol/day (6 g salt/day) and in some cases no more than 65 mmol/day (4 g salt/day). Two WHO expert consultations recommended that the population average for salt consumption should be < 5 g/day (WHO, 1983; WHO/FAO, 2003). While well below the average salt consumption in most countries, this recommendation reflects a pragmatic compromise since well-conducted trials clearly indicate that even greater sodium reductions (to 50–60 mmol/day) would achieve greater health benefits. (Denton, 1982; WHO – International Society of Hypertension, 1999; Sacks et al, 2001; He & MacGregor, 2004) Additionally, numerous countries worldwide have set adequate intake levels for sodium. In Australia and New Zealand the adequate intake for adults for sodium was set at 460–920 mg/day (20–40 mmol/day) to ensure that basic nutritional requirements are met and to allow for adequate intakes of other nutrients (Nutrient Reference Values for Australia and New Zealand, 2005)." http://www.nrv.gov.au/nutrients/sodium.htm

This compromise is a pact with the enemy! Weapons is delivered for the entropy law (by turbo Na/K pump)! The high sodium intake = we deliver weapons and ammunition for our fiercest enemy. Who uses it without hesitation - against us. This fiercest enemy = The LAW of ENTROPY (the second law of thermodynamics). And the law of entropy destroys the order in us anyway.

Nobody knows, or nobody dares to write it down, that the official recommendations are bad? The optimal sodium intake is somewhere between 460 and 920 mg/day (current Australian). All mmol sodium (23 mg) swallowed unnecessarily, uses it the energy of 2x10 at20 pieces of ATP molecules. (Only if the sodium ions only one times, and only 1 cell of ours diffuses!) But more thousand times, and from many thousand of our cells it is necessary to remove it, while finally flows out from us!

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0 · November 22, 2012 at 3:49 PM

Links between dietary salt intake, renal salt handling, blood pressure, and cardiovascular diseases. Meneton P, Jeunemaitre X, de Wardener HE, MacGregor GA. Physiol Rev. 2005 Apr;85(2):679-715.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15788708 http://physrev.physiology.org/content/85/2/679.long

From the abstract: ".. The mechanisms by which dietary salt increases arterial pressure are not fully understood, but they seem related to the inability of the kidneys to excrete large amounts of salt. From an evolutionary viewpoint, the human species is adapted to ingest and excrete <1 g of salt per day,.."

See more:

http://padre.uw.hu/ekvis/entropyobesity.htm

And interesting articles: Thermogenesis induced by osmotic stimulation of the intestines in the rat Toshimasa Osaka, Akiko Kobayashi, and Shuji Inoue J Physiol. 2001 April 1; 532(Pt 1): 261–269.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2278526/

From the article: "The metabolic rate rose during the 10 min infusion period of 3.6 % NaCl, stayed at a plateau level of ≈205 J kg−0.75 min−1 between 35 and 120 min and then slowly declined but was still significantly higher than the baseline level at 3 h. The energy expenditure induced by 3.6 % NaCl was 3.49 ± 0.33 kJ kg−0.75, which was not significantly different from that induced by the infusion of 20 % glucose."

and:

Role of diabetes, hypertension, and cigarette smoking on atherosclerosis Ram K. Mathur, J Cardiovasc Dis Res. 2010 Apr-Jun; 1(2): 64–68.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2945206/

From the article: "However, thermogenesis caused by IV was lesser than that caused by the intestinal infusion of NaCl and the solutions of the other above-mentioned nutrients, suggesting an involvement of intestinal osmoreceptors. This further suggests that it is unlikely that IV and intestinal osmotic stimulation induces identical mechanisms of thermogenesis. However, it does show that an increase in the plasma osmolality, within the physiological range, elicits thermogenesis. The mechanism of thermogenesis is not clear."

:-) Not clear??? Floor gas (turbo) Na/K pump and kidney use more energy (ATP) caused by NaCl! Must burn from the reserve for the excess ADP ---> ATP reactions!!!

Some consequences of high sodium intake - The specialists talk about these rarely or never! 1. bigger and longer hunger stimulus - we overeat 2. we drink many sugary soft drinks - we get fat 3. we get tired soon, we move little 4. higher energy requirements for Na-K pump, and kidney 5. all the rest of our vital processes receive less energy (because the metabolic rate - speed and capacity of enzyme reactions, oxygen supply, etc. - is limited) 6. all of our vital processes work worse (including our heart, brain, immune system, etc.) 7. we get sick often, and We will die soon = Extra profit in food and pharmaceutical industry and health services, and savings in the pension funds.

Plagiarism necessary: The optimal Na/K ratio and the ratio between sum of alkaline metals and sum of polyvalent metals (etc.) is in the human milk. Copy/Paste and extrapolation :-)

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334 · February 22, 2012 at 2:57 PM

Thanks, all you PaleoHacks - I hadn't heard of Ray Peat before today, but I'm off to do some research. I'm loving Paleo, but my hormones are all over the place and my sleep is rubbish, so here's hoping there'll be plenty in there to interest me.

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