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Has Paleo left you Thiamine Deficient?

by (1667)
Updated about 9 hours ago
Created May 20, 2013 at 8:10 PM

I have been Paleo for a few years (34 years old, 6ft, 190lbs 8-10%) now and wanted to share an experience i was having with an early waking sleep problems throughout my time on Paleo. I had limited success with supplementing Biotin (B-7) due to lots of eggs (and whites) I eat daily. I also make a smoothy once a week with 1-4 oz of raw liver and I eat oysters once a week.

More recently I had the most profound experience when taking a supplement and I can find zero evidence to support my results. I tried a Thiamine (benfotiamine) supplement on a whim and after one dose (I now take one pill every other day) experienced relaxation and ease of a full nights sleeps on the level I have never experienced while pale. I can now even nap freely and easily while sleeping a full 8-10 hours. I also seem to need way less carbs now, or am I absorbing carbs more efficiently now.

Has anyone had this experience with Thiamine? Most research on Thiamine deficiency has to do with alcohol dependency/ gastric bypass, has anyone been diagnosed with Thiamine deficiency?

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5 · February 19, 2014 at 10:40 AM

Brewer's is an expensive option mostly sold as a pet supplement and nutritional yeast isn't available where I live as far as I know so I will kill some baker's yeast. Apparently yeast dies around 55-60 celsius.

It may not be enough to fill RDA to 100% but since our requirements didn't change much since paleolithic era, I think it may not be a problem. If it still may be a problem maybe the paleolithic era people were spending so much energy that their diet allowed them to fill the need.

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4393 · February 19, 2014 at 9:53 AM

don't get your yeasts confused...bakers, brewers, nutritional

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5 · February 19, 2014 at 9:29 AM

Yeah I guess you are right, this paper explains:

http://www.maxwellsci.com/print/ajfst/v2-47-49.pdf

Another thing to add is not to consume thiaminase. So we'd rather cook seafood that contain thiaminase to a certain temperature.

I didn't check the reliability of the information but here's a list of seafood that contain thiaminase and that don't:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/thiaminase.htm

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11682 · February 18, 2014 at 6:20 PM

Sorry, but the nutritional information is not about the the resulted tea, but about the hibiscus powder, it seems to me. So when making a cup of tea, it seems like you only get FRACTIONS of these numbers reported in the nutritional information.

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245 · February 18, 2014 at 6:09 PM

Please note from what I can tell the nutrition information on hibiscus tea is incorrect. Recommendations I've got in the thread I tried was Brewers yeast(contains gluten I believe) and sprouted stuff(not 100% paleo...but properly prepared it's paleoish)

Nutritional yeast and breads seem to only have thiamin through fortification...aswell as 'yeast speads'.(foreign people toping)

Also seeds/nuts may be a way to go...but the omega 6. :(

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17136 · February 17, 2014 at 6:35 PM

+10,000,000 bacon, bacon, bacon!

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997 · February 17, 2014 at 3:12 PM

Yep, this is what I do. Make sure I get some pork meat (chops, roast, something) a couple times a week. I do have a thiamin supplement I take only if I am out of good pork. I really hate the store-bought factory-farm, nasty smelling stuff. Sometimes I can get Niman Ranch protocol pork at a store which is pretty good but the best is when I can get a half a hog from a farmer.

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1667 · May 25, 2013 at 3:50 PM

Here is a similar experience likely related to tea consumption http://forum.lef.org/default.aspx?f=35&m=62385

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986 · May 21, 2013 at 2:47 AM

I think it's time for some pork chops, Cory!

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5802 · May 21, 2013 at 2:34 AM

Yeah, but I'm not getting it from foods. That's the thing. Even tracking it and intentionally trying to eat it! It's harder when you are female and eating fewer calories ... you have to literally make every bite count.

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26182 · May 21, 2013 at 2:02 AM

ok. so eat 2000 calories of bacon a day. Check.

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41471 · May 21, 2013 at 1:41 AM

Yep, all the more reason to eat pork, tasty and good for you! 6 ounces of 70% lean pork has 100% DV.

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41471 · May 21, 2013 at 1:39 AM

Paleo superpowers of perception!

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897 · May 21, 2013 at 1:35 AM

B vitamin complex seems like such a waste when you can easily get them from foods or nutritional yeast.

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897 · May 21, 2013 at 1:32 AM

Not really. You have to eat a fair amount of lean pork not fatty pork cuts like bacon. The thiamine is in the muscle.

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1667 · May 21, 2013 at 1:32 AM

Great point as I do eat bacon every day.

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1667 · May 21, 2013 at 1:31 AM

I eat Whole Foods Bacon every single day.

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1667 · May 21, 2013 at 12:20 AM

Here is a study that shows Benfotiamine being beneficial over standard Thiamine at moping up AGE's. This may be an added benefit. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11571671

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1667 · May 20, 2013 at 10:08 PM

Yes you aree correct Lazza, sorry about the typo (see correction).

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2506 · May 20, 2013 at 8:25 PM

I haven't tried thiamine in quantity. As an aside, biotin is vitamin B7 (not B5). Pantothenic acid is vitamin B5.

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15400 · May 20, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Terry Wahls recommends nutritional yeast.

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15400 · May 20, 2013 at 8:24 PM

http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/thiamin-b1-foods.php

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3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2
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11682 · May 20, 2013 at 9:20 PM

This might be the case, since on Paleo we don't eat beans (not even traditionally-prepared). To me this became apparent via a proxy: I was craving for kale chips. For months! I'd go through bags of kale chips from Trader Joe's like they were water.

My husband got quite unhappy about it, since these are pretty pricey. The kale chips I was doing at home were not "doing it" for me, I needed the "cheesy" flavor.

It's only recently that I realized that it wasn't kale that I was craving (I thought I was vit-A deficient or something, for craving it so much), but B1. The nutritional yeast that the cheesy version of the commercial kale chips has about 500% the RDA for B1, per serving. This explained everything, especially since I was very rarely hitting 100% RDA on B1 on my daily food intake (I'm tracking what I eat).

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41471 · May 21, 2013 at 1:39 AM

Paleo superpowers of perception!

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897 · May 21, 2013 at 1:29 AM

I've seen many of these threads of people either not making it to the B1 RDA on a consistent basis. The only significant sources come in oats and grains like brown rice. (most people here reject brown rice and go with white rice which has barely any nutrients). Another source is lean pork but most people eat fatty pork cuts like bacon. Even if you eat 500 calories of bacon you still only get around 20% of your daily b1, as the vitamin is in the muscle meat.

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26182 · May 21, 2013 at 2:02 AM

ok. so eat 2000 calories of bacon a day. Check.

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1667 · May 21, 2013 at 1:32 AM

Great point as I do eat bacon every day.

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5802 · May 20, 2013 at 11:18 PM

Funny you mentioned this. I've been tracking on cronometer for a while. I was analyzing trends this week, and I seem to be only averaging 50% rda on B1, B5, and folate. And Eugenia, I'm also craving kale! I've been looking at the PHD recs on supplements, and will probably start adding some of those. They recommend a once weekly supplement of B complex.

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/recommended-supplements/

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1667 · May 21, 2013 at 12:20 AM

Here is a study that shows Benfotiamine being beneficial over standard Thiamine at moping up AGE's. This may be an added benefit. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11571671

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5802 · May 21, 2013 at 2:34 AM

Yeah, but I'm not getting it from foods. That's the thing. Even tracking it and intentionally trying to eat it! It's harder when you are female and eating fewer calories ... you have to literally make every bite count.

5dd50f78f47b8848d93724d6eb38d4c1
897 · May 21, 2013 at 1:35 AM

B vitamin complex seems like such a waste when you can easily get them from foods or nutritional yeast.

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5 · February 19, 2014 at 9:33 AM

Also from what I've read, baker's yeast can actually deprive the body of b vitamins because it's alive and will grow inside, but high temperatures probably kills it. What about baker's yeast in pressure cooked bone broth ? I guess I will try that.

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4393 · February 19, 2014 at 9:53 AM

don't get your yeasts confused...bakers, brewers, nutritional

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0 · February 18, 2014 at 6:24 PM

Trying taking unsalted sunflower seeds and checking your magnesium levels. You can go as a high as 450 for Magnesium this will also help with calming the nerves and better sleep.

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5 · February 18, 2014 at 3:05 PM

Not legumes, hibiscus tea and a search for highest thiamin content per calorie of food at nutritiondata.com

Editing: Hibiscus tea isn't a significant source and thiaminase can be a problem, see my reply below.

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245 · February 18, 2014 at 6:09 PM

Please note from what I can tell the nutrition information on hibiscus tea is incorrect. Recommendations I've got in the thread I tried was Brewers yeast(contains gluten I believe) and sprouted stuff(not 100% paleo...but properly prepared it's paleoish)

Nutritional yeast and breads seem to only have thiamin through fortification...aswell as 'yeast speads'.(foreign people toping)

Also seeds/nuts may be a way to go...but the omega 6. :(

3eca93d2e56dfcd768197dc5a50944f2
11682 · February 18, 2014 at 6:20 PM

Sorry, but the nutritional information is not about the the resulted tea, but about the hibiscus powder, it seems to me. So when making a cup of tea, it seems like you only get FRACTIONS of these numbers reported in the nutritional information.

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20
5 · February 19, 2014 at 9:29 AM

Yeah I guess you are right, this paper explains:

http://www.maxwellsci.com/print/ajfst/v2-47-49.pdf

Another thing to add is not to consume thiaminase. So we'd rather cook seafood that contain thiaminase to a certain temperature.

I didn't check the reliability of the information but here's a list of seafood that contain thiaminase and that don't:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/thiaminase.htm

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986 · May 21, 2013 at 12:59 AM

Do you eat pork? It's one of the foods highest in thiamin, isn't it?

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897 · May 21, 2013 at 1:32 AM

Not really. You have to eat a fair amount of lean pork not fatty pork cuts like bacon. The thiamine is in the muscle.

34f00c7b4e5738cf04ead1a012a14ed1
986 · May 21, 2013 at 2:47 AM

I think it's time for some pork chops, Cory!

32f5749fa6cf7adbeb0b0b031ba82b46
41471 · May 21, 2013 at 1:41 AM

Yep, all the more reason to eat pork, tasty and good for you! 6 ounces of 70% lean pork has 100% DV.

9b0a4701e373d4dd13831cfb9b13f42d
1667 · May 21, 2013 at 1:31 AM

I eat Whole Foods Bacon every single day.

94480caec9fbbaacc386d86a45efa720
997 · February 17, 2014 at 3:12 PM

Yep, this is what I do. Make sure I get some pork meat (chops, roast, something) a couple times a week. I do have a thiamin supplement I take only if I am out of good pork. I really hate the store-bought factory-farm, nasty smelling stuff. Sometimes I can get Niman Ranch protocol pork at a store which is pretty good but the best is when I can get a half a hog from a farmer.

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