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Gut Bacteria and Starch Consumption

by (88)
Updated about 6 hours ago
Created September 01, 2013 at 8:25 PM

Hey,

So while I don't have SIBO or a serious such bacterial overgrowth, I did have a high count for just one strain of bad bacteria: Enterobacter Cloacae, on my Geneva Diagnostics comprehensive digestive and stool analysis test that I had done a while ago. I asked a question about how to get rid of the bad bacteria, and whether antibiotics were necessary or a good idea, given that my naturopath had wanted me to use them, but since then I injured my leg and had to have less-powerful antibiotics to combat an infection I got in the wound(I had to have 21 stitches, so it was a pretty damn big rip out of my leg).

I had to take them for 2 weeks, and since then my digestion has gone to shit, and I'm noticeably carrying more bodyfat, which I assume has to do with how antibiotics affect your healthy gut flora that regulate metabolism and process different macronutrients, etc etc. Anyway, my question is really to do with starch consumption: Should I avoid starch while I'm trying to get rid of the EC using a blend of powerful probiotics and herbal supplements?(oil of oregano, peppermint, uva-ursi)

75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac
2506 · September 03, 2013 at 12:28 PM

As for eating a ton of probiotic rich food, I don't really know if this will help. You can try by making your own sauerkraut (very easy, check online for instructions) and eating a small portion daily. Sauerkraut contains FAR more good bacteria than any probiotic capsule although I think it might be limited to only one or two strains of bacteria. However sometimes all this probiotic goodness acts like a bomb in your small intestines, causing gastric distress. Just tread lightly.

75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac
2506 · September 03, 2013 at 12:24 PM

You can easily find online references listing foods based on their glycemic index. Try doing a Google using keywords "glycemic" "food list" and "Atkins".

874ff271ca3379984344d5f9f760fec3
471 · September 03, 2013 at 11:57 AM

Starch feeds the wrong bugs. FOS provides the substrate for the bif's. I didn't know there were workouts that "require" glycogen.

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e
354 · September 03, 2013 at 7:21 AM

Jdoane's right about fruit and muscle glycogen replenishing. And note the results of this research: "several strictly controlled rat infection studies showed that non-digestible fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) increase, rather than decrease, translocation of Salmonella towards extra-intestinal sites. In addition, it was shown that FOS increases intestinal permeability..." http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/9/144

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 10:01 PM

so I actually CAN eat something like a sweet potato and not worry about it feeding the bad bacteria? Is that what you're saying?

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 5:38 PM

What does this mean? I'm sorry, but his writing sort of confuses me.. From what I can tell, he's saying that taking resistant starch, through supplemental form, is the only way probiotics can be absorbed? WHat?

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 3:57 PM

Also, can eating a ton of probiotic rich food as well as taking probiotics help to kill off the EC? Because I heard that increasing good gut bacteria with HUGE doses of good bugs can sort of "crowd" the baddies and kill them off faster.. is there any merit to this?

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 3:55 PM

That sounds like a good idea... I have noticed that the days I did have starch during the past month or so, I managed better with baked sweet potatoes than I did with pumpkin or acorn squash.. If I am in need of carbohydrate for glucose replenishment(following hard workouts) what would be the fastest digesting form of carbs? I don't really like white rice, and I LOVE sweet potatoes(personally) so would having those be okay assuming I cooked them long enough to make them extremely high on the GI?

C16e2e3642960bfaabee1c1c7fbf9df1
384 · September 02, 2013 at 3:37 PM

I'd actually like to 2nd Jdoane's question :)

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 1:32 PM

What should I do if I am involved in workouts that require carb consumption for glycogen? From what I've learned, fruit isn't useful for replenishing muscle glycogen, so what should I do?

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4 Answers

736662d9fd6314d426cc6de1896aa045
1
175 · September 02, 2013 at 4:44 PM

Have a look at this - an online experiment to see if resistant starch (potato) helps gut flora: http://freetheanimal.com/2013/08/resistant-starch-content-of-foods-other-anecdote-and-miscellania.html#comment-535136

"Here's what resistant starch looks like, feeding your colonic gut bacteria (and how probiotics can actually survive the stomach & small intestine to get to where they're supposed to be)."

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 10:01 PM

so I actually CAN eat something like a sweet potato and not worry about it feeding the bad bacteria? Is that what you're saying?

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 5:38 PM

What does this mean? I'm sorry, but his writing sort of confuses me.. From what I can tell, he's saying that taking resistant starch, through supplemental form, is the only way probiotics can be absorbed? WHat?

874ff271ca3379984344d5f9f760fec3
1
471 · September 02, 2013 at 10:57 AM

Avoid Starch. Add FOS. From WIKI: "...FOS serves as a substrate for microflora in the large intestine, increasing the overall gastrointestinal tract (GI Tract) health. It has also been touted as a supplement for preventing yeast infections..."

C16e2e3642960bfaabee1c1c7fbf9df1
384 · September 02, 2013 at 3:37 PM

I'd actually like to 2nd Jdoane's question :)

874ff271ca3379984344d5f9f760fec3
471 · September 03, 2013 at 11:57 AM

Starch feeds the wrong bugs. FOS provides the substrate for the bif's. I didn't know there were workouts that "require" glycogen.

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 1:32 PM

What should I do if I am involved in workouts that require carb consumption for glycogen? From what I've learned, fruit isn't useful for replenishing muscle glycogen, so what should I do?

3013d1b44fd7f65b4c8412f229d1d00e
354 · September 03, 2013 at 7:21 AM

Jdoane's right about fruit and muscle glycogen replenishing. And note the results of this research: "several strictly controlled rat infection studies showed that non-digestible fructo-oligosaccharides (FOS) increase, rather than decrease, translocation of Salmonella towards extra-intestinal sites. In addition, it was shown that FOS increases intestinal permeability..." http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2164/9/144

B120d28d9620626012de121b6075ce51
0
134 · September 03, 2013 at 5:50 AM

The question is not how to get rid of the bacteria, the question is if the test itself is legitimate. Genova has a history of fraudulent reporting according to Quackwatch.

75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac
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2506 · September 02, 2013 at 3:51 PM

It is really tough to force a rebalancing of gut flora. I had bad IBS and found going on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) to be extremely helpful. Unfortunately using fruit as the primary carbohydrate source did zap my energy in the long term. But now my gut is healthy-ish , eating some starches, and I feel great.

I might suggest you choose starches that have a high glycemic index. Hopefully this would mean the starches would absorb quickly rather than linger in your gut.

_Lazza

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 3:55 PM

That sounds like a good idea... I have noticed that the days I did have starch during the past month or so, I managed better with baked sweet potatoes than I did with pumpkin or acorn squash.. If I am in need of carbohydrate for glucose replenishment(following hard workouts) what would be the fastest digesting form of carbs? I don't really like white rice, and I LOVE sweet potatoes(personally) so would having those be okay assuming I cooked them long enough to make them extremely high on the GI?

75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac
2506 · September 03, 2013 at 12:24 PM

You can easily find online references listing foods based on their glycemic index. Try doing a Google using keywords "glycemic" "food list" and "Atkins".

458b7bac46cb9d6110245305ce8fae44
88 · September 02, 2013 at 3:57 PM

Also, can eating a ton of probiotic rich food as well as taking probiotics help to kill off the EC? Because I heard that increasing good gut bacteria with HUGE doses of good bugs can sort of "crowd" the baddies and kill them off faster.. is there any merit to this?

75d65450b6ff0be7b969fb321f1200ac
2506 · September 03, 2013 at 12:28 PM

As for eating a ton of probiotic rich food, I don't really know if this will help. You can try by making your own sauerkraut (very easy, check online for instructions) and eating a small portion daily. Sauerkraut contains FAR more good bacteria than any probiotic capsule although I think it might be limited to only one or two strains of bacteria. However sometimes all this probiotic goodness acts like a bomb in your small intestines, causing gastric distress. Just tread lightly.

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