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**Official Paleo Complaints Thread**

by (24523)
Updated October 23, 2014 at 3:23 AM
Created October 19, 2011 at 3:44 AM

Do you have a complaint about something paleo-related? I sure do. Spew it out--but if you're going to spew, spew into this! (thanks Garth)

  • Whole Foods- I used to shop at the discount-iest of the discount grocery stores before paleo. Now I shop at Whole Foods, and wonder why I can't afford to pay my alimony.

  • Chipotle- Why must you be so delicious yet cooked in soybean oil?

  • Nomenclature- Explaining to friends and strangers how you eat is a challenge. Paleo? Unprocessed? Ancestral? Paleo 2.6?

  • Too much science- Are my mitochondria okay with my nutrient flux? Should I care or just eat whole foods?

  • Grok- God love him, but Mark Sisson's Grok is not universally well-loved throughout the paleosphere.

  • Wheat in the ingredients list- First ingredient...looks paleo. Second and third...paleo. Hold on, contains wheat? Why??

  • Lack of sugar- Okay, you've drunk the paleo kool-aid. But come on...ice cream and cake taste amazing. Admit it. And now you can't have any. Neener neener neener.

  • Paleo Foodies- I love them and I hate them. Nicely prepared food is awesome. But listening to people talk about duck confit and sous vide ad nauseum is not as fun as it sounds. Take your Meyer Lemon-rind foam and shove it.

  • Paleohacks moderators- I never was a big fan. They delete your threads and don't tell you why. Then I became one, and started hating myself a little bit.

  • Leangains website- Such valuable information, but strangely slow to load. And why is everyone so ripped? It makes me feel like a bag of jello.

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8979 · September 07, 2013 at 1:28 AM

I knit, but admit that I don't have enough knitting to keep up with many of them.

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320 · February 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM

#2 is indeed annoying. It seems that virtually any diet other than an SAD is healthier than an SAD. :-D

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321 · November 28, 2012 at 5:35 PM

I just call it Food Hole.

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321 · November 28, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Repeat that too often, not to mention the sweet potatoes and the pumpkin and you're a carotenemia yellow-skinned freak.

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197 · June 10, 2012 at 4:30 AM

steaks are more enjoyable when you can cook them tender, and it can be done easily. i recommend reading more about tenderizing with salt, trying different cuts of meat (loin and sirloin area tend to be tenderest), and grilling or searing/baking instead of pan frying. good luck! if you want a really soft steak, fillet mignon is the way to go!

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197 · June 10, 2012 at 4:21 AM

this just shows that there are no absolutes. a healthy diet involves understanding quantity and right now we just don't have the ability to measure how much of a nutrient is good before it becomes bad. the next stage of nutrition science must include more monitoring and measuring.

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788 · April 25, 2012 at 1:26 PM

I was in the same boat. I highly recommend Liverwurst (bought mine from US Wellness) or other types of liver sausage. The taste is completely different.

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788 · April 25, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Whole foods does have the best Rotisserie Chicken + Organic Salad bar. No additives to the chicken, no pesticides on the vegetables and olive oil + balsamic vinegar available for the dressing. If I am desperate for a meal its one of my guilt free options.

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11557 · April 20, 2012 at 8:43 PM

For the number of dishes paleo produces, podcasts are perfect when cleaning the kitchen.

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4176 · April 09, 2012 at 6:16 PM

You aren't missing out on much with Trader Joe's. I live next to one and it is mostly a corn, soy, and wheat mecca.

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529 · March 31, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Thanks for the warning I am more weary now.

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1571 · March 06, 2012 at 10:28 PM

Whole Foods prepared foods drives me nuts! I have sworn it off cuz of mislabeling on their part that ended up in me having a reaction. Boo.

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1571 · March 06, 2012 at 10:23 PM

Kewpie - I resemble that comment. Glad I've got so many resources to browse/choose from.

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146 · February 22, 2012 at 5:44 AM

The thread was about whining - so that was my whine. Yes its true that some people cannot tolerate certain foods and have to be "religious" about avoiding them, and I dod not mean to be insensitive to that. But when I see questions like "Can a paleo have a relationship with a non-paleo?" I start to wonder if dogmatism is overtaking sensibility. Hence my whine above. We do not live in the stone age. We are following guidelines, not commandments.

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350 · February 12, 2012 at 9:46 PM

eek. I can't complain too much because we are members of a Co-Op but TJs is just so cheap.

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701 · February 11, 2012 at 8:28 PM

I saw "beta" and "Android" and had already cut and pasted "ArcheAncestPaleo" into Google before I had read a thing.

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3501 · February 11, 2012 at 4:17 PM

I agree in that I think ou missed the spirit in which this particular thread is meant for but I do agree with you in the sense that I myself need to quit Freaksn, it really isn't THAT hard and wow, what a "first world problem"...nothing to whine about. Enjoy life!

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1002 · February 11, 2012 at 6:13 AM

This post strikes a chord with me. I'm pretty new at this, still trying to drop certain things from my diet. I had an eating disorder long long ago, and I am beginning to see that thinking too much about what is paleo, what I can and can't eat if I'm "paleo" is going to trigger that behavior. I do not want to get to the point where all I think about is what I am/am not going to eat. Been there, done that. I think I'd better keep some of my ignorance and peace of mind.

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8255 · February 10, 2012 at 11:09 PM

Add on that the 5% is conflicting and mutually exclusive.

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37187 · February 10, 2012 at 10:20 PM

First, this whole thread is for the purpose of whining. No one made you open it. Second, many people, me included, will be sick for 2 weeks or longer if we accidentally eat even a trace of wheat. To me, you're the whiner for not respecting the thread. -1

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37187 · February 10, 2012 at 10:17 PM

I hear you! I'm about 2 hours away from anything. I asked one of the few fresh produce "tents" in my area if she had anything organic and her jaw dropped (sigh).

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50 · January 25, 2012 at 6:04 AM

Yup. Guys who cook = hawt. That'll turn your lifestyle into a plus in her eyes pretty quick.

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50 · January 25, 2012 at 6:02 AM

Thank you! Calories DO matter, and it's frustrating when other Paleo's tell me to "stop counting and just relax". I'm a fitness instructor for crissake! I've TRIED not counting. Guess what happens when I do that. It covers my six pack right up! Duhr.

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50 · January 25, 2012 at 5:59 AM

^Bwahahaha! Love these answers! Yes, the leptin talk is both fascinating and frustrating. I get tired of reading about it.

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5808 · January 22, 2012 at 1:55 AM

So true, every one of these. I suspect that Whole Foods intentionally made their parking lots so small here, not because they want to encourage biking (which is impossible here, since they put the stores far away from downtown, in Lexus "we're rich so screw you hippy" county), but because the employees get the joy of watching bloodthirsty lot-sharks battle it out for a chance to go in and buy some fricken' kombucha. Longevity.

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6229 · January 20, 2012 at 12:52 AM

Beautifully like how I feel!

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8979 · November 20, 2011 at 4:56 PM

well, my a$$hole detector developed a$$hole resistance after visiting Free the Animal too much.

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8979 · November 20, 2011 at 4:52 PM

must be leptin denial syndrome

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2291 · November 10, 2011 at 9:37 PM

I'd get a new husband.

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8239 · November 10, 2011 at 3:48 PM

Very well stated. "If it's CW, it must be wrong. If it questions CW it must be on the right track." To which I would add: "If it originated a very long time ago, its ancient practitioners must for that reason have been way, way better, more virtuous, than my poor benighted parents." Retro-romanticism, pure and simple.

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8239 · November 10, 2011 at 3:42 PM

Put yourself out there as much as Mark does, and you create a lot of intellectual territory to shoot at. Actually I feel compassion for Mr. Sisson. He obviously does not own a shirt. He deserves one.

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683 · November 10, 2011 at 10:30 AM

Phlogiston is much more important than the ether.

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2427 · November 10, 2011 at 9:19 AM

I downvoted you.

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3743 · October 25, 2011 at 8:01 PM

"Not all things conventional wisdom are bad just as not all things alternative are good." 100% agree.

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1371 · October 24, 2011 at 3:23 PM

hahaha thanks! matthew, got it :) lol

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3789 · October 23, 2011 at 1:06 AM

None of us eat a real paleolithic diet. We don't hunt and gather now extinct species on the African savannah. Asking whether "Grok" had something is of no value, since we have access to almost none of the foods he ate. If that's the requirement, we might as well go back to eating Twinkies.

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37187 · October 22, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Grok probably found eggs only during spring/early summer. I've thought about it, though, and by itself that's no reason to avoid them. My questions about eggs and milk are more in the area that they are perfect foods for fast-growing babies but not necessarily ideal for mature adults.

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37187 · October 22, 2011 at 10:03 PM

I tried pastured bison liver and was shocked how mild it was; didn't taste like the liver I was used to at all. Re: steak, traditionally steaks were marbled with fat and delicious. If you're not careful today, you get this totally lean thing that would make better shoe leather--I usually buy chuck steak now because it still has a little marbling.

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10 · October 21, 2011 at 8:59 PM

@Mallory "If you like food __ but aren’t eating it because blogger/hacker _ says it will kill you or harms him/her THEN MAYBE this is a sign you need to make decisions for YOURSELF" THIS! THIS! THIS!

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10 · October 21, 2011 at 8:58 PM

I love podcasts, especially Robb Wolf's. It's great for walking to work in the morning.

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10 · October 21, 2011 at 8:54 PM

@A at a Grain Free Diet -- I agree. I've gotten some great deals at Whole Foods. You just need to know what to get, and watch the sales. Granted, some things are SUPER expensive there, but not all.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Stay away from hipsters. Grok didn't wear thrift store duds.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Grok wasn't stupid. Get a flat rock hot, crack open and egg, and there you have it. Did he have eggs in the quantity we now have them? No. But I can guarantee you he knew how to cook them and when to find them.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Grok wasn't stupid. Get a rock hot, drop an egg on it. Did he have eggs in the quantity we now have them? No. But I can guarantee you he knew how to cook them.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Amen. I'm love science, but it's only one dimension of being human. I take it with a grain of salt with the idea in mind that it's possibly some progress in understanding 1% of the universe.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:29 PM

I want more discussion about the ether.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:27 PM

Bravo, bravo, bravo!

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 5:35 PM

Must stop receptors now, bwah hah hah hah hah! :-)

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19220 · October 21, 2011 at 4:28 PM

Made with humorous intent :)

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1371 · October 21, 2011 at 2:23 PM

please tell me your joking... ALLOWED!?!?! like, are you allowed to stay up past 9pm??

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180 · October 21, 2011 at 2:17 PM

You absolutely are lucky! I have long considered making the move. Currently in Germany and while Europe is "better" than the US, it's still a bit rough here.

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1227 · October 21, 2011 at 2:06 PM

"ammunition for my intuition" Also last year I did not get a flu shot bein all paleo and all. I did not get the flu, but I am 69 and my husband 79 and I feel that vaccines are helpful to avoid illness like shingles, tetnus etc. Even though I don't trust the gov't very much. I took a chance this year and got the shot. Still love eating paleo/primal and feel great.

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1227 · October 21, 2011 at 2:00 PM

Thank you Annika. When I stopped taking statins after maybe 10 years, my cholesterol level shot up to an alarming degree. I have a fine cardiologist and we settled on my continuing taking a 10 mm statin. My levels are still high, but my intuition says that it is good to take some amount of statin. Your links give me ammunition for by intuition.

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19220 · October 21, 2011 at 10:41 AM

@Mallory - That is all very well but I still want to know if am I allowed to eat avocados or not?!?!

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19220 · October 21, 2011 at 10:38 AM

Anything that equals Zooey Deschanel has to be good :)

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19220 · October 21, 2011 at 10:36 AM

Why are you so resistant to the leptin? :)

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919 · October 21, 2011 at 8:33 AM

mine was 'tongue in cheek' !

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65 · October 21, 2011 at 8:29 AM

Except I live *in* New Zealand, so I'm bloody lucky.

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24271 · October 21, 2011 at 4:17 AM

+! for "in fact, if it's a choice between not eating meat and supporting CAFO/industrialized practices, I vote no meat." I agree completely.

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10176 · October 21, 2011 at 1:18 AM

Do you find this caveman dorky? http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/img_gal/13603_Ted%20Nugent.jpg Goofy maybe. Pride of Michigan.

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24523 · October 21, 2011 at 12:28 AM

I think I know why you're aggravated. Your leptin levels are off.

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1373 · October 20, 2011 at 7:48 PM

I very much like my ascribed username more than Mary E Clark consulting as well. Thank YOU for creating this thread, because otherwise I would have forcibly kidnapped everyone I know and then taken them to mandatory biochemistry class. I would have chained them to their chairs.

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40 · October 20, 2011 at 6:59 PM

After correcting my husband a few times when he'd say something like, "Oh I forgot, you aren't allowed to have this on your diet." I THINK he now sees the problems with that statement. Maybe. :)

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6433 · October 20, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Wow - now I definitely jumped the gun there! :) It's just so hard to judge tone over the internet...

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1371 · October 20, 2011 at 5:59 PM

good points guys, thanks

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 5:48 PM

Sure Simibee! I grew up/live in Utah, where there is a major cult. So I might have issues myself with 'sheep' and being a non-conformist. I guess for me its about being open minded, willing to change, and to learn. I promise I am not a sneering type person ;).

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6433 · October 20, 2011 at 5:34 PM

Fair enough - I may have jumped the gun there. My excuse is excessive internet use leading to an asshole detector with a hair-trigger, tripped by use of the words "sheep" or "sheeple". Pinky shake and make up? ;)

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90 · October 20, 2011 at 5:31 PM

I feel you on C, but mine is Eggs... I feel like every recipe I see that I want to try has Eggs in it, and there is no good substitute

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Simibee -I am not saying that I am better and more enlightened, just different. But I truly think that people are full of fear -after all, life is scary. It doesn't mean they are stupid, but its so much more safe to follow a set path, maybe they use their intelligence in other ways.

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6433 · October 20, 2011 at 5:06 PM

Really? Because I think that I've just hit the true nature of 99% of people who like to sneer at others as "sheep". They are generally the most complacent, unoriginal, self-satisfied and easily-led thinkers of them all.

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451 · October 20, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Oh man I wish! I think they're also a bit jealous of my new found svelteness (if that is actually a word) so they enjoy teasing me about something! Just wish the whole grok thing didn't make it so easy for them!

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4059 · October 20, 2011 at 4:33 PM

That's cold! (but heh heh)

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 4:19 PM

Haha! Mine has been the opposite. Food Allergies = Dorky and Paleo Foodie = Intelligent Consumer.

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 4:00 PM

You have just hit the true nature of 99% of people = Sheep. The need to be led, the desire to follow -it helps to relieve the fear of failure. The fear of taking control of one's own life and ruining it. See government, religion, etc. Rules make most people feel safe and happy. Innocence is Bliss. Be glad that you have broken the mold!

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10176 · October 20, 2011 at 3:56 PM

Grok didn't have a skillet. He didn't have baconandeggs. Having an egg isn't the same thing.

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 3:53 PM

My SAD husband told me just last night that my nutrition talk (I was telling him about an interview I had listened to of Ray Peat) made me sound like a crazy person, and I should keep quiet in public. I gave him the silent treatment for the rest of the night.

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 3:51 PM

If you son is old enough, just reassure him that should you be damaging your health -its all the sooner he will get his inheritance. So basically he should shut it. Or you could reverse things and say that you are glad that he is eating SAD, because it will accelerate his death -and since yours will be lengthened -you can die at the same time -together.

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5135 · October 20, 2011 at 3:49 PM

Plenty of paleo people eat seasonally/locally and promote that way of thinking.

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 3:28 PM

I think hard time with liver is an understatement in my case. (I mixed one ground tablespoon into a pound of beef + spices and could still taste it, and had to give the whole lot to the dogs). I will keep my eyes peeled for the availability of wild boar and try to stock up!

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1371 · October 20, 2011 at 3:19 PM

i do this too... yikes this kinda sucks

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1371 · October 20, 2011 at 3:19 PM

grok didnt find eggs?? i know eggs are seasonal but cmon...

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1371 · October 20, 2011 at 3:18 PM

i agree with every single word of that. it is a bit ridiculous haha. and to think what someone would say if i muttered this out as i chose food because it is what is going on in my head...

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747 · October 20, 2011 at 2:51 PM

Furthermore South America, especially, has much more lighter laws about their food production that we do. They use pesticides quite liberally and many of them are outlawed state side.

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1336 · October 20, 2011 at 11:24 AM

I love podcasts. I used to commute for at least an hour a day, but we moved in to town a couple of months ago and now my commute is only 5 minutes. I listen while doing chores, but it's not the same.

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180 · October 20, 2011 at 9:09 AM

If you have access to it, try wild boar liver! Also, if it's from a good source, keep it a bit pink. The less cooked it is, the less "liver" flavor it has in my opinion. I have a hard time with liver as well but so far wild boar has been the "best" tasting of the lot.

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1600 · October 20, 2011 at 4:55 AM

I had to hear a whole speech on this not too long ago. Infuriating because I knew that I just had to shut up and let them speak. Just not worth the effort it takes to try and explain to someone who doesnt want to listen.

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1600 · October 20, 2011 at 4:50 AM

Seconded!! The more I read and research the more I see of this. I finally had to tear myself away and just *be*. It really does remind me of some of the more religious folks who just cannot fathom how anyone else could be happy/healthy doing something different.

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1600 · October 20, 2011 at 4:46 AM

But carrots are so high in carbs... (lol jk) I have the same problem. I feel like I cant eat anything anymore. They put CRAP in the places you least expect!! ack!!

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1600 · October 20, 2011 at 4:38 AM

"Friend mode is very useful and allows nearby friends with Android phones to download a free 200 page explanation of how my diet works" LMAO *snorts* hahahahah LOVE it!!

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4347 · October 20, 2011 at 1:00 AM

I review a lot of cookbooks, and have got to say... I'm not impressed with many of the ones I see now. Maybe that's just because I consider myself an okay cook and don't need a terrible amount of instruction anymore? I will say that I have purchased two paleo cookbooks (one is not yet here) with the hopes of re-inspiring me. I'm always up for new ideas, but only if they're truly something out of my usual realm. I'm just not impressed by cookbooks for people who've never fried an egg anymore.

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683 · October 19, 2011 at 11:55 PM

Very very true, but I'll raise you and add that now I'm worried about what the RER says about my glucose/fat oxidation ratios and whether the malonyl-CoA is impacting the fatty acyl-CoA and screwing over my citrate shuttle!

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15229 · October 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM

.....and also, jerks.

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15229 · October 19, 2011 at 11:30 PM

GASP! personally offended!! "Paleo Foodies- I love them and I hate them. Nicely prepared food is awesome. But listening to people talk about duck confit and sous vide ad nauseum is not as fun as it sounds. Take your Meyer Lemon-rind foam and shove it."

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6229 · October 19, 2011 at 11:23 PM

I only listen to them on the car - because even on Paleo I can't drive and read the transcript at the same time!

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6229 · October 19, 2011 at 11:21 PM

LOL - have to agree with all your complaints! The hubby and I have argued till 2 in the morning if something was "Paleo," enough for us to eat! Hahah! I was mortified when I saw in Chipotle how high the flame went for fajita vegetables. (We get the bowl with meat and veggies). The hubby replied, "Mega trans-fat - no more that! - (soybean oil hit the smoke point so it's probably one of those)

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3280 · October 19, 2011 at 11:06 PM

Lustig totally needs a lesson in effective slide presentation.

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24523 · October 19, 2011 at 11:05 PM

When I saw your username a couple times before, I thought it was "Mary E Clark Consulting". The actual username is much better. So thanks for having the username you ascribed to yourself and not the one I imagined.

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10768 · October 19, 2011 at 10:40 PM

This was just marvelous... actual LOL, with mixed guffaw. Is the release buggy with edible bugs?

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951 · October 19, 2011 at 10:26 PM

I have to agree with the leangains site. I have read it in its entirety, but it looks like an abandoned website that was made in an evening.

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1091 · October 19, 2011 at 9:41 PM

This might be my biggest complaint... people spend way too much time in the "point of diminishing returns" part of the curve, and it always seems to me that it's much less healthy to stress over that 5% than to just let it go. This is why I like Kurt Harris's list so much - simple and focuses on the important bits and doesn't require a PhD in biochem.

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1091 · October 19, 2011 at 9:34 PM

Normally I'm not one to listen to people whine, but I LOVE your list. So funnies.

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1638 · October 19, 2011 at 8:39 PM

I'm with you. In my case, because of how my ADD works - especially with anything aural - I CAN'T listen to something like a podcast when I am doing ANYTHING else because I keep forgetting that I am supposed to be paying attention and I have to keep starting over. Whereas I am a really fast reader and like you I could be done with a transcript in 5 minutes or less for an hour podcast. And I REFUSE to spoil my walk around the lake every night with someone else talking to me thru plugs in my ears. (grin)

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827 · October 19, 2011 at 8:29 PM

And spending an hour doing it, and then going home with nothing but a bag of organic carrots.

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536 · October 19, 2011 at 8:08 PM

+1 Kamal! Thanks for the laugh! I am enjoying all the responses too!

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39841 · October 19, 2011 at 8:03 PM

Unfortunately, that's an excellent post and all too true.

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12369 · October 19, 2011 at 7:32 PM

hahahhaa another downvote you guys are so funny ;)

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16131 · October 19, 2011 at 7:22 PM

@ben - you should really remedy that. It HAS been a long time.

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10176 · October 19, 2011 at 7:12 PM

And add to that, if you get 5% wrong you're the devil.

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10176 · October 19, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Chicken is for the birds.

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7223 · October 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Amen, AdrianaG! I've been disappointed in every paleo cookbook I've seen so far. They all seem to be geared toward people who have never cooked anything more advanced than a microwave dinner.

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7223 · October 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM

I like podcasts in general and listen when I'm walking my dog or doing boring household chores. Most of the health/nutrition podcasts I really like aren't actually specifically paleo. Chris Kresser is probably my fave. I like both Underground Wellness and Livin' La Vida Low Carb, too. I'm not interested in everyone they interview, but I just skip those interviews. Some of the paleo q & a podcasts start off ok (although most suffer what Senneth mentions), but I find eventually they start to authoritatively answer questions outside their areas of expertise and things start to get questionable.

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18635 · October 19, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Ah yes, so you mean the people who misconstrue the message...got it.

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18635 · October 19, 2011 at 6:19 PM

Hmmm...I never got "chronic cardio" to include that? In fact all I ever see is him promoting LOTS of low level activity. Yeah ben, I think its a comprehension/reading problem. Ah well.

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20411 · October 19, 2011 at 6:13 PM

"Everyone gets at least one naughty." Love it!

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7540 · October 19, 2011 at 6:11 PM

Yeah. He's a great writer and his posts are always enjoyable, it's too bad people don't seem to actually read them all the way through (e.g. I've never seen him say that doing any running, ever, will hurt you, but if you browse the forums you can see lots of posts to that effect)

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20411 · October 19, 2011 at 6:04 PM

I think that "Grok" would much prefer a deer. And Lewis and Clark only resorted to deer when they couldn't bag a moose, elk or buffalo.

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20411 · October 19, 2011 at 6:01 PM

Wow. I am sooo jealous! I still have the Wooly Mammoth release and the GUI keeps getting all over my fingers. And it reboots whenever someone says "Leptin Reset".

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 6:01 PM

When I hear people actually mouth "whole paycheck" I want to bust them in the mouth

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 6:00 PM

Hey Olives, yeah (again although I really enjoy listening and reading his stuff) many people run amoc with his wording "chronic cardio" and suddenly think my 3 mile runs are going to have adverse effects.

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 5:58 PM

I like #2 a lot. Lots of people get healthier than they'd otherwise be on a million other ways of eatig.

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 5:57 PM

we definitely don't discuss the Biophotons enough these days.

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 5:57 PM

I wouldn't take my dog on such long, scent-filled walks if it weren't for Wolf's, Moore's NPR's, Greenfield's, Byron Richard's, Kresser's, and Coppolo's podcasts

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 5:55 PM

similarly, and usually derived from the same people, is when young T-filled 21-25 year old hard bodies recommend the same activities and eating styles for those at hormonally and metabolically different points of their lives.

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7540 · October 19, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Don't forget telling them that they shouldn't walk too much or do anything except lift and sprint once a week, because CHRONIC CARDIO!!!!11

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7540 · October 19, 2011 at 5:52 PM

My least favourite thing about Sisson is the fact that he's responsible for popularizing the hokey, annoying "Grok" concept. Also for the fact that people worry that running 10k a week or walking too much is "chronic cardio".

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7540 · October 19, 2011 at 5:51 PM

"Grok" didn't live in a food environment with constant access to way, way, way more omega 6 fatty acids than are biologically appropriate for us to consume. Hence the deliberate limiting of omega-6 rich food like chicken.

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56616 · October 19, 2011 at 5:39 PM

I listen to them when I do chores.

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39841 · October 19, 2011 at 5:24 PM

Or fat/flabby guys saying the same thing. Actually, I don't know which one's worse.

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12407 · October 19, 2011 at 5:24 PM

whaddayamean we can't have ice-cream!?!?!

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5135 · October 19, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Seems to me this is a pretty bad misinterpretation of his message. You're confusing what got him questioning with the answers he came up with.

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4080 · October 19, 2011 at 4:56 PM

Or when they talk about boring personal things,and laugh like hyena's at each others (inside)jokes. blech!

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3808 · October 19, 2011 at 4:32 PM

Yup, hard to get people to take you seriously when you're talking about Paleo this-or-that.

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 4:30 PM

Better yet, invite her to a picnic that you prepared. Guys who can cook are a turn-on. She probably won't even notice there is no bread on the menu!

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3808 · October 19, 2011 at 4:30 PM

Agreed! I hate both podcasts and videos. Especially when you have to listen to half an hour of banter to get 5 minutes of actual content.

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM

If you already know how to cook, I don't see a need for paleo cookbooks at all, unless you are bound and determined to find "paleo substitutes" for all of the flour based goodies that were staples of your CW diet.

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213 · October 19, 2011 at 3:28 PM

+1 Try having a unibrow and long arms, then telling people you're on the 'caveman diet'. Doesn't seem so appealing. And no I'm not a monster, this is hypothetical :P

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12369 · October 19, 2011 at 2:36 PM

hahahahaha an anonymous downvote! I hope that was tongue in cheek! If not - go be negative elsewhere!

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24523 · October 19, 2011 at 1:57 PM

A at Grain Free Diet-- Yes, that whole thing gets annoying sometimes too! But I went from shopping at "Jonny's FoodMaster" to shopping at Whole Foods. And my dietary staples went from grain to meats and veggies. Much more expensive, but totally worth it.

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 1:47 PM

I could do without the Paleo and Cave Man names. Grok can go too...a bit too cute for me.

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 1:45 PM

I just can't believe that Grok wouldn't just as soon eat a bird as a rabbit as a deer.

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10176 · October 19, 2011 at 1:40 PM

@melissa duck confit is only easy for me if I have a can of it, and there are no trips to France on the horizon to restock...unless you have an EZ recipe I'll continue dismantling the birds and eating them fresh...

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 1:39 PM

Tabasco??? No, no, no! Nightshades, tsk!

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 1:24 PM

while I enjoy his book, and think hes a great speaker, Im with you cliff on his spotty thinking here. I always hear him and just think "its cuz you ate shitty food and ran too much. thats it."

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20519 · October 19, 2011 at 12:39 PM

Totally agree on all counts. Appreciate. Be gracious. Don't sweat the small things but find the joy in them. Live and love as big and as much as possible. Oh, but please find another name for Grok. So irritating :)

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20519 · October 19, 2011 at 12:31 PM

1st thought: why is she mentioning the band? 2nd thought: she's totally not mentioning the band and it's the hairy beast. 3rd thought: but what if she **is**?!?!? 4th thought: i'm going to pretend she did because that just makes her even cooler. if possible. thanks for the grins this morning melissa!

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1811 · October 19, 2011 at 12:31 PM

+1 for the Paleo police!

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78422 · October 19, 2011 at 12:08 PM

Nice ....... :)

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1837 · October 19, 2011 at 11:19 AM

+1 for namechecking Mastodon - whether you intended to mean the band or not.

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8933 · October 19, 2011 at 9:51 AM

Don't have any complain, except for my father telling me to eat bread all the time.

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6889 · October 19, 2011 at 7:39 AM

I don't really get this "Whole Paycheck" "OMG Whole Foods is expensive!" thing. If you pay attention to prices and sales, you can actually buy organic food at Whole Foods for less than some of the regular crap at the supermarket. Plus it's better quality and Whole Foods has store coupons on their website and in their flyers at the door. I spend less at Whole Foods than I do at Safeway.

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24523 · October 19, 2011 at 6:12 AM

I love this. All jokes aside, perspective is worth a million dollars. If I could get someone to periodically text me to remind me that I don't live in a war-torn country, I have access to almost unlimited medical care, and I've been given the opportunity to learn about one of the most powerful factors in health and happiness (healthy eating!), that would be awwwwwsssssome.

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20353 · October 19, 2011 at 5:22 AM

That is funny Melissa!!!

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20353 · October 19, 2011 at 5:22 AM

Very well written and entertaining Kamal!

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4620 · October 19, 2011 at 4:51 AM

This post makes me question if your low-reward cave is actually a cake-and-ice-cream cave.

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4059 · October 19, 2011 at 4:44 AM

Tons of entertainment!

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18635 · October 19, 2011 at 4:33 AM

Oh, and when they delivered my meat last month they forgot my freakin raw sharp cheddar cheese!

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24523 · October 19, 2011 at 3:53 AM

Stupid moderators with their stupid excuses... (I am actually jealous of duck confit and should make some)

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56616 · October 19, 2011 at 3:50 AM

The paleohacks mod thing is a design/UI issue, that you can't easily send a message to a user about their thread...plus the site allows you to sign up with a fake email. Grrr Stack Exchange.

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56616 · October 19, 2011 at 3:50 AM

Duck confit is easy to make. You are just jealous :P

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3521 · October 19, 2011 at 7:48 PM

I loved knowing nothing about food except that you could eat it. Now I know that tomatoes, potatoes, and peppers are nightshades. I know dairy has casein and lactose, which are potentially problematic. That legumes and nuts have phytic acid and lectins. Fruit has a bad sugar called fructose. Coconut has saturated fat and is very high in salicylates. When meat is browned it creates a mallard reaction. Cookies have vegetable oils. Fish isn't fish, fish is a bunch of Omega 3 fatty acids, some protein and iodine. Egg whites could tear your gut apart. Sweet potatoes are high in oxalates. Lots of calcium is bad, not enough calcium is bad. Fat has 9 calories per gram. Protein and carbohydrates have 4. If I eat too much tortillas I might get pellagra. I need fiber, fiber is bad. Eating lots of meat might give me iron overload. Not eating enough and I might get anemia. Vegetables are good for you. Vegetables have a lot of toxins which are potentially bad for some individuals. Carbohydrates raise insulin, that's bad, no it's good.

The more I study and look into nutrition, the more fearful of food I become.

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197 · June 10, 2012 at 4:21 AM

this just shows that there are no absolutes. a healthy diet involves understanding quantity and right now we just don't have the ability to measure how much of a nutrient is good before it becomes bad. the next stage of nutrition science must include more monitoring and measuring.

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1371 · October 20, 2011 at 3:18 PM

i agree with every single word of that. it is a bit ridiculous haha. and to think what someone would say if i muttered this out as i chose food because it is what is going on in my head...

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683 · October 19, 2011 at 11:55 PM

Very very true, but I'll raise you and add that now I'm worried about what the RER says about my glucose/fat oxidation ratios and whether the malonyl-CoA is impacting the fatty acyl-CoA and screwing over my citrate shuttle!

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39841 · October 19, 2011 at 8:03 PM

Unfortunately, that's an excellent post and all too true.

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56616 · October 19, 2011 at 3:59 AM

I eat ArcheAncestPaleo 3.3.0Beta Release: Mastodon and it's working totally fine. I have very few complaints. The UI is a little wonky though and sometimes the latest release deletes ice cream from my freezer randomly even when I set it to cheat mode. The starch override feature is quite nice though and allows me to buy some potatoes occasionally even though the interface warns me they are potentially hazardous.

Friend mode is very useful and allows nearby friends with Android phones to download a free 200 page explanation of how my diet works, which makes my life easier since I don't have to spend days explaining it on my own. I'm really glad they added that FatPlus+ system to core this time so it's easier to eat more bacon without receiving fat overload messages. The new Guilt Modulation system1 is also somewhat useful and tells me every morning that I can eat an apple without acquiring diabetes. However, someone forgot to remove some old code, the Carb Guilt system, and it occasionally freezes the system when you try to eat the apples or potatoes.

Overall, I'm quite happy with the latest release, but I'm hoping they can clean up their code so the next release is a little less buggy.

Some users are talking about the FoodRewardAlpha system, which regulates your food intake based on "reward value," but many users think it's bogus and claim it doesn't work with the Carb Guilt add-on that was taken out of core recently, but remains very popular. Personally, when I tried to install it I was very unhappy that it prevented me from using massive amounts of Tabasco sauce and pouring ghee all over everything, so I removed it.

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701 · February 11, 2012 at 8:28 PM

I saw "beta" and "Android" and had already cut and pasted "ArcheAncestPaleo" into Google before I had read a thing.

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6229 · January 20, 2012 at 12:52 AM

Beautifully like how I feel!

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1600 · October 20, 2011 at 4:38 AM

"Friend mode is very useful and allows nearby friends with Android phones to download a free 200 page explanation of how my diet works" LMAO *snorts* hahahahah LOVE it!!

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10768 · October 19, 2011 at 10:40 PM

This was just marvelous... actual LOL, with mixed guffaw. Is the release buggy with edible bugs?

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20411 · October 19, 2011 at 6:01 PM

Wow. I am sooo jealous! I still have the Wooly Mammoth release and the GUI keeps getting all over my fingers. And it reboots whenever someone says "Leptin Reset".

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 1:39 PM

Tabasco??? No, no, no! Nightshades, tsk!

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20519 · October 19, 2011 at 12:31 PM

1st thought: why is she mentioning the band? 2nd thought: she's totally not mentioning the band and it's the hairy beast. 3rd thought: but what if she **is**?!?!? 4th thought: i'm going to pretend she did because that just makes her even cooler. if possible. thanks for the grins this morning melissa!

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78422 · October 19, 2011 at 12:08 PM

Nice ....... :)

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1837 · October 19, 2011 at 11:19 AM

+1 for namechecking Mastodon - whether you intended to mean the band or not.

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20353 · October 19, 2011 at 5:22 AM

That is funny Melissa!!!

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18635 · October 19, 2011 at 4:30 AM

14 different theories that tell you 95% of the same thing, but spending an exhausting amount of time and effort on what is in all likelihood an inconsequential 5% just so we can say we found OPTIMAL!....

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8255 · February 10, 2012 at 11:09 PM

Add on that the 5% is conflicting and mutually exclusive.

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1091 · October 19, 2011 at 9:41 PM

This might be my biggest complaint... people spend way too much time in the "point of diminishing returns" part of the curve, and it always seems to me that it's much less healthy to stress over that 5% than to just let it go. This is why I like Kurt Harris's list so much - simple and focuses on the important bits and doesn't require a PhD in biochem.

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10176 · October 19, 2011 at 7:12 PM

And add to that, if you get 5% wrong you're the devil.

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18635 · October 19, 2011 at 4:33 AM

Oh, and when they delivered my meat last month they forgot my freakin raw sharp cheddar cheese!

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12369 · October 19, 2011 at 5:20 AM

My official complaints

'Paleo' police - They are here there and flipping everywhere! Even my friends and co-workers watch what I eat and say 'hey....that's not paleo" --- and i say to them bugger off!

Anonymous downvotes - I know that has been discussed here before, but it still gets me, what can I say, I'm human and I don't particularly like negative feedback - and anonymous negtive feedback is like a heckler in a dark crowd - just plain rude and unhelpful!

and EVERYTHING THAT KAMAL SAID! - man you nailed that right on the head for me!

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2427 · November 10, 2011 at 9:19 AM

I downvoted you.

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919 · October 21, 2011 at 8:33 AM

mine was 'tongue in cheek' !

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15229 · October 19, 2011 at 11:33 PM

.....and also, jerks.

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12369 · October 19, 2011 at 7:32 PM

hahahhaa another downvote you guys are so funny ;)

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12369 · October 19, 2011 at 2:36 PM

hahahahaha an anonymous downvote! I hope that was tongue in cheek! If not - go be negative elsewhere!

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1811 · October 19, 2011 at 12:31 PM

+1 for the Paleo police!

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20411 · October 19, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Wandering around the grocery store in a daze. Because no matter what I get, there is something wrong with it.

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321 · November 28, 2012 at 5:09 PM

Repeat that too often, not to mention the sweet potatoes and the pumpkin and you're a carotenemia yellow-skinned freak.

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1371 · October 20, 2011 at 3:19 PM

i do this too... yikes this kinda sucks

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1600 · October 20, 2011 at 4:46 AM

But carrots are so high in carbs... (lol jk) I have the same problem. I feel like I cant eat anything anymore. They put CRAP in the places you least expect!! ack!!

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827 · October 19, 2011 at 8:29 PM

And spending an hour doing it, and then going home with nothing but a bag of organic carrots.

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1614 · October 19, 2011 at 5:52 AM

I hope it's not hijacking this thread to say that I'm in no place to complain? The examples make me laugh, but I'll take 1000 inconveniences any day for the sake of something as precious as health going in a much better, less scary direction. I don't know how to put it exactly, but just standing back and looking at the big picture lately has put me in a state of constant gratitude.

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20519 · October 19, 2011 at 12:39 PM

Totally agree on all counts. Appreciate. Be gracious. Don't sweat the small things but find the joy in them. Live and love as big and as much as possible. Oh, but please find another name for Grok. So irritating :)

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24523 · October 19, 2011 at 6:12 AM

I love this. All jokes aside, perspective is worth a million dollars. If I could get someone to periodically text me to remind me that I don't live in a war-torn country, I have access to almost unlimited medical care, and I've been given the opportunity to learn about one of the most powerful factors in health and happiness (healthy eating!), that would be awwwwwsssssome.

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1811 · October 19, 2011 at 12:58 PM

Hmmm... Was I supposed to shove it in CW's face and eat the chicken skin or avoid it because it's full of omega-6?

Why again is this raw, pasture-raised, yogurt produced from Jersey cows fermented using traditional strains and tolerated well by my Swedish, lactose-producing, good lipid-level body bad for me? Was it the casein or Grok's inability to work an udder?

Being that I'm not type II diabetic or remotely pre-diabetic, why are my carbs restriced to one small sweet potato in the 1 hour immediately post-cross-fit workout window? Is it because I'm too pale to pass for Kitavan?

Oh, and should I avoid multivitamins and get all my nutrients from food or take a multivitamin because I can't get all my nutrients from modern foods?

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20411 · October 19, 2011 at 6:04 PM

I think that "Grok" would much prefer a deer. And Lewis and Clark only resorted to deer when they couldn't bag a moose, elk or buffalo.

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7540 · October 19, 2011 at 5:51 PM

"Grok" didn't live in a food environment with constant access to way, way, way more omega 6 fatty acids than are biologically appropriate for us to consume. Hence the deliberate limiting of omega-6 rich food like chicken.

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 1:45 PM

I just can't believe that Grok wouldn't just as soon eat a bird as a rabbit as a deer.

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39841 · October 19, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Highly active guys with 6-packs telling the obese they should eat 65%+ calories from fat in order to get lean.

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 5:55 PM

similarly, and usually derived from the same people, is when young T-filled 21-25 year old hard bodies recommend the same activities and eating styles for those at hormonally and metabolically different points of their lives.

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7540 · October 19, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Don't forget telling them that they shouldn't walk too much or do anything except lift and sprint once a week, because CHRONIC CARDIO!!!!11

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39841 · October 19, 2011 at 5:24 PM

Or fat/flabby guys saying the same thing. Actually, I don't know which one's worse.

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4080 · October 19, 2011 at 5:09 PM

Paleo Health Improvements: Me not improving my health or helping my tummy problems after years on paleo, but reading how it changed people's lives! (Ok, wait..that might be my own jealousy issue..)

Paleohacks: Questions that have been answered over and over -the writer doesn't do their research. Responders that just want to respond -disregarding the question. For example: Question: Egg free breakfast ideas. Annoying Responder: Just eat eggs, I do. (Or even worse: Go without breakfast, fasting is good for you).

Liver: So good for you, so nasty. No Matter how you dress it up -screw the recipes, they don't work -Liver is Satans apple.

Eating Out Cheap: Miss it. Especially those darn breakfast burritos and horchata.

Steak: Its uncookable despite numerous hints/tips/proven methods. Mine always turns out tough and unedible.

The Coffee Controversy: So sick of it. Everyone gets at least one naughty.

My husband: eating SAD and using "Everything in Moderation" as his motto. Worst of all -I can't be his shining example of Paleo success because..See my first item!! Paleo hasn't done sh&*^ for me! (I am sticking with it for intellectual reasons and sheer stubbornness).

Five finger shoes: When the sole comes out, those things are a monster to get back in.

Boiled Eggs: The perfect food except they smell like death.

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197 · June 10, 2012 at 4:30 AM

steaks are more enjoyable when you can cook them tender, and it can be done easily. i recommend reading more about tenderizing with salt, trying different cuts of meat (loin and sirloin area tend to be tenderest), and grilling or searing/baking instead of pan frying. good luck! if you want a really soft steak, fillet mignon is the way to go!

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37187 · October 22, 2011 at 10:03 PM

I tried pastured bison liver and was shocked how mild it was; didn't taste like the liver I was used to at all. Re: steak, traditionally steaks were marbled with fat and delicious. If you're not careful today, you get this totally lean thing that would make better shoe leather--I usually buy chuck steak now because it still has a little marbling.

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 3:28 PM

I think hard time with liver is an understatement in my case. (I mixed one ground tablespoon into a pound of beef + spices and could still taste it, and had to give the whole lot to the dogs). I will keep my eyes peeled for the availability of wild boar and try to stock up!

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180 · October 20, 2011 at 9:09 AM

If you have access to it, try wild boar liver! Also, if it's from a good source, keep it a bit pink. The less cooked it is, the less "liver" flavor it has in my opinion. I have a hard time with liver as well but so far wild boar has been the "best" tasting of the lot.

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20411 · October 19, 2011 at 6:13 PM

"Everyone gets at least one naughty." Love it!

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 1:44 PM

Podcasts- I hate them!

What's the point? Why spend an hour listening when you can read through a transcript in 5 minutes?

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8979 · September 07, 2013 at 1:28 AM

I knit, but admit that I don't have enough knitting to keep up with many of them.

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11557 · April 20, 2012 at 8:43 PM

For the number of dishes paleo produces, podcasts are perfect when cleaning the kitchen.

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10 · October 21, 2011 at 8:58 PM

I love podcasts, especially Robb Wolf's. It's great for walking to work in the morning.

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1336 · October 20, 2011 at 11:24 AM

I love podcasts. I used to commute for at least an hour a day, but we moved in to town a couple of months ago and now my commute is only 5 minutes. I listen while doing chores, but it's not the same.

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6229 · October 19, 2011 at 11:23 PM

I only listen to them on the car - because even on Paleo I can't drive and read the transcript at the same time!

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1638 · October 19, 2011 at 8:39 PM

I'm with you. In my case, because of how my ADD works - especially with anything aural - I CAN'T listen to something like a podcast when I am doing ANYTHING else because I keep forgetting that I am supposed to be paying attention and I have to keep starting over. Whereas I am a really fast reader and like you I could be done with a transcript in 5 minutes or less for an hour podcast. And I REFUSE to spoil my walk around the lake every night with someone else talking to me thru plugs in my ears. (grin)

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7223 · October 19, 2011 at 6:27 PM

I like podcasts in general and listen when I'm walking my dog or doing boring household chores. Most of the health/nutrition podcasts I really like aren't actually specifically paleo. Chris Kresser is probably my fave. I like both Underground Wellness and Livin' La Vida Low Carb, too. I'm not interested in everyone they interview, but I just skip those interviews. Some of the paleo q & a podcasts start off ok (although most suffer what Senneth mentions), but I find eventually they start to authoritatively answer questions outside their areas of expertise and things start to get questionable.

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 5:57 PM

I wouldn't take my dog on such long, scent-filled walks if it weren't for Wolf's, Moore's NPR's, Greenfield's, Byron Richard's, Kresser's, and Coppolo's podcasts

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56616 · October 19, 2011 at 5:39 PM

I listen to them when I do chores.

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4080 · October 19, 2011 at 4:56 PM

Or when they talk about boring personal things,and laugh like hyena's at each others (inside)jokes. blech!

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3808 · October 19, 2011 at 4:30 PM

Agreed! I hate both podcasts and videos. Especially when you have to listen to half an hour of banter to get 5 minutes of actual content.

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1371 · October 20, 2011 at 3:35 PM

My biggest complain with paleo/primal/leangains/primal wisdom/hyperlipd, actually ANY blog about ???real food??? health is that NO ONE SEEMS TO BE ABLE to make decisions FOR HIMSELF. Just because you KNOW x y and z about food does NOT mean it will affect you in such a way and you are going to die from cancer -muscle cramp -leptin deload- insulin-to-much-activity-depression-insomnia-thirst syndrome coupled with irritable-mood-bowel-gut dysbosis in the next 24 hours.

Just because say, Don at Primal Wisdom changes HIS diet and informs people about it does NOT mean you HAVE TO, or even that you SHOULD. It means he is informing you of what works for HIM. Just because Peter at Hyperlipid is convinced a higgghhhh saturated fat diet equates to health and long life does not mean that Mallory(me) won???t promote a highhhhhh carbohydrate diet with longevity and health.

This plays into my next complaint, too many people questioning if they ???can??? do this or that. Like for real, is this real life??? Are you really asking an internet community if you can walk a mile, if you can go to bed at 9pm, if youre gut will be destroyed by the skin of an fing potato, if you can have food when you get up for work and youre hungry???.??????????????????????

And my main point/rant, NO ONE is right about health/nutrition/disease besides YOU. Before you go around the grocery store for an hour and get in a fight with the butcher who wont import seal heart and blubber for your zero carb diet or the farmer who is unsure of the mineral density of the soil his vegetables were grown in, SELF EXPERIMENT AND TAKE A CHANCE AND TRY THINGS FOR YOURSELF.

If your hungry in the morning, fing eat, then LISTEN TO YOUR BODY.

If your tired at 3pm, GO TO BED, see how you feel in the morning.

If you keep eating coconuts and your gut keeps being destroyed, maybe you should listen to your body.

If youre eating chicken breasts/lean turkey/tilapia/tuna and your skin is dry and red and your eyes are so dry you cant blink, maybe you should listen to your body.

If you eat avocados and notice they digest well, enhance your skin tone, maybe you should stop fing worrying about their PUFA content and DO WHAT IS WORKING FOR YOU.

If you cant stop eating nuts once you start, maybe you should listen to your body???s reaction and stop buying them.

If you down a protein shake and notice your heart rate skyrockets and temples are beating, maybe you should take that as a sign.

If you like food __ but aren???t eating it because blogger/hacker _ says it will kill you or harms him/her THEN MAYBE this is a sign you need to make decisions for YOURSELF

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8979 · November 20, 2011 at 4:56 PM

well, my a$$hole detector developed a$$hole resistance after visiting Free the Animal too much.

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1371 · October 24, 2011 at 3:23 PM

hahaha thanks! matthew, got it :) lol

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10 · October 21, 2011 at 8:59 PM

@Mallory "If you like food __ but aren’t eating it because blogger/hacker _ says it will kill you or harms him/her THEN MAYBE this is a sign you need to make decisions for YOURSELF" THIS! THIS! THIS!

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:27 PM

Bravo, bravo, bravo!

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19220 · October 21, 2011 at 4:28 PM

Made with humorous intent :)

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1371 · October 21, 2011 at 2:23 PM

please tell me your joking... ALLOWED!?!?! like, are you allowed to stay up past 9pm??

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19220 · October 21, 2011 at 10:41 AM

@Mallory - That is all very well but I still want to know if am I allowed to eat avocados or not?!?!

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40 · October 20, 2011 at 6:59 PM

After correcting my husband a few times when he'd say something like, "Oh I forgot, you aren't allowed to have this on your diet." I THINK he now sees the problems with that statement. Maybe. :)

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6433 · October 20, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Wow - now I definitely jumped the gun there! :) It's just so hard to judge tone over the internet...

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1371 · October 20, 2011 at 5:59 PM

good points guys, thanks

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 5:48 PM

Sure Simibee! I grew up/live in Utah, where there is a major cult. So I might have issues myself with 'sheep' and being a non-conformist. I guess for me its about being open minded, willing to change, and to learn. I promise I am not a sneering type person ;).

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6433 · October 20, 2011 at 5:34 PM

Fair enough - I may have jumped the gun there. My excuse is excessive internet use leading to an asshole detector with a hair-trigger, tripped by use of the words "sheep" or "sheeple". Pinky shake and make up? ;)

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Simibee -I am not saying that I am better and more enlightened, just different. But I truly think that people are full of fear -after all, life is scary. It doesn't mean they are stupid, but its so much more safe to follow a set path, maybe they use their intelligence in other ways.

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6433 · October 20, 2011 at 5:06 PM

Really? Because I think that I've just hit the true nature of 99% of people who like to sneer at others as "sheep". They are generally the most complacent, unoriginal, self-satisfied and easily-led thinkers of them all.

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 4:00 PM

You have just hit the true nature of 99% of people = Sheep. The need to be led, the desire to follow -it helps to relieve the fear of failure. The fear of taking control of one's own life and ruining it. See government, religion, etc. Rules make most people feel safe and happy. Innocence is Bliss. Be glad that you have broken the mold!

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 5:54 PM

My complaint with many people who are into paleo would be that too many of us try to avoid the simple fact that calories matter; they always have and always will.

The conventional wisdom that says you can eat less calories to lose bodyfat is not mutually exclusive with most of what it is we all call Paleo.

Not all things conventional wisdom are bad just as not all things alternative are good.

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50 · January 25, 2012 at 6:02 AM

Thank you! Calories DO matter, and it's frustrating when other Paleo's tell me to "stop counting and just relax". I'm a fitness instructor for crissake! I've TRIED not counting. Guess what happens when I do that. It covers my six pack right up! Duhr.

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3743 · October 25, 2011 at 8:01 PM

"Not all things conventional wisdom are bad just as not all things alternative are good." 100% agree.

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4620 · October 19, 2011 at 4:41 AM

Rice and potatoes trying to get all up in my gene expression. To get revenge, I like to brutally maim the eyes on my potatoes.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 12:25 AM

Leptin, leptin, leptin. Please, it's not the answer to every #($#($(#$ question!

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50 · January 25, 2012 at 5:59 AM

^Bwahahaha! Love these answers! Yes, the leptin talk is both fascinating and frustrating. I get tired of reading about it.

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8979 · November 20, 2011 at 4:52 PM

must be leptin denial syndrome

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 5:35 PM

Must stop receptors now, bwah hah hah hah hah! :-)

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19220 · October 21, 2011 at 10:36 AM

Why are you so resistant to the leptin? :)

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24523 · October 21, 2011 at 12:28 AM

I think I know why you're aggravated. Your leptin levels are off.

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3743 · October 19, 2011 at 11:23 PM

Science before common sense. That's what got us into this mess after all, we started questioning our traditional roots in the name of science. Now it's like we have to relearn how to eat, what a waste of time. I should be on Mars right now.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Amen. I'm love science, but it's only one dimension of being human. I take it with a grain of salt with the idea in mind that it's possibly some progress in understanding 1% of the universe.

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10044 · October 19, 2011 at 5:28 PM

My complaint is when you tell family and friends about the benefits of a paleo diet and they look at you like you are crazy and they normally respond with "But whole grains are an important part of a balanced diet and provide fiber."

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2291 · November 10, 2011 at 9:37 PM

I'd get a new husband.

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 3:53 PM

My SAD husband told me just last night that my nutrition talk (I was telling him about an interview I had listened to of Ray Peat) made me sound like a crazy person, and I should keep quiet in public. I gave him the silent treatment for the rest of the night.

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1600 · October 20, 2011 at 4:55 AM

I had to hear a whole speech on this not too long ago. Infuriating because I knew that I just had to shut up and let them speak. Just not worth the effort it takes to try and explain to someone who doesnt want to listen.

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16131 · October 19, 2011 at 1:22 PM

Biophotons and earthing.

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683 · November 10, 2011 at 10:30 AM

Phlogiston is much more important than the ether.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:29 PM

I want more discussion about the ether.

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16131 · October 19, 2011 at 7:22 PM

@ben - you should really remedy that. It HAS been a long time.

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 5:57 PM

we definitely don't discuss the Biophotons enough these days.

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451 · October 20, 2011 at 4:08 PM

The embarrassment of following a diet that makes people think of loin cloths. I refuse to use terms like paleo, caveman, grok etc... as my hipster foodie friends would never let me hear the end of it. I end up saying "I'm not hungry" or just saying that I avoid gluten as gluten intolerance is hot right now.

Caveman = dorky.

Gluten free = manic pixie dream girl (Zooey Deschanel)

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Stay away from hipsters. Grok didn't wear thrift store duds.

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19220 · October 21, 2011 at 10:38 AM

Anything that equals Zooey Deschanel has to be good :)

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10176 · October 21, 2011 at 1:18 AM

Do you find this caveman dorky? http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/img_gal/13603_Ted%20Nugent.jpg Goofy maybe. Pride of Michigan.

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451 · October 20, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Oh man I wish! I think they're also a bit jealous of my new found svelteness (if that is actually a word) so they enjoy teasing me about something! Just wish the whole grok thing didn't make it so easy for them!

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 4:19 PM

Haha! Mine has been the opposite. Food Allergies = Dorky and Paleo Foodie = Intelligent Consumer.

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9812 · October 19, 2011 at 12:00 PM

I'm with ya on the "too much science!"

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1336 · September 07, 2013 at 12:44 AM

Reading confident, compelling, scientifically referenced articles on Paleo-type blogs (Masterjohn, Kresser) stating that saturated fat is good and PUFAs are bad, or that statins have never been shown to benefit anyone except men who have already had a heat attack...

then reading actual studies on PubMed which say the opposite.

Statins: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21989464

SFA vs. PUFA: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20351774

I have family members on statins, and would like to show them why I believe statins are doing them more harm then good, but when I go directly to the literature I cannot demonstrate this. I am a firm believer in real foods and the benefits of high-quality animal products, but whenever I try to dig down into the actual data, my confidence in the Paleo way of eating is shaken. It doesn't help that although I am an RN and have taken a whole class in research, I'm not smart enough to effectively evaluate studies.

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1227 · October 21, 2011 at 2:06 PM

"ammunition for my intuition" Also last year I did not get a flu shot bein all paleo and all. I did not get the flu, but I am 69 and my husband 79 and I feel that vaccines are helpful to avoid illness like shingles, tetnus etc. Even though I don't trust the gov't very much. I took a chance this year and got the shot. Still love eating paleo/primal and feel great.

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1227 · October 21, 2011 at 2:00 PM

Thank you Annika. When I stopped taking statins after maybe 10 years, my cholesterol level shot up to an alarming degree. I have a fine cardiologist and we settled on my continuing taking a 10 mm statin. My levels are still high, but my intuition says that it is good to take some amount of statin. Your links give me ammunition for by intuition.

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1074 · October 20, 2011 at 4:37 PM

i wish today's violence was paleo. no guns, only rocks and bare fists...

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7540 · October 19, 2011 at 6:19 PM

Conflation of the failings of nutritional science and "conventional wisdom" (as in the spew found in magazines and such) with all medical science. Also constant application of the "CW" label. "My doctor uses CW to diagnose." "My CW friends/spouse/sister/dog" "My CW professor said..." it's grating and doesn't even make sense half the time.

Also thinking that just because something goes against the grain, it should be given serious consideration, even if it basically violates everything we know about physiology. e.g. Mark Sisson's post about earthing as it applies to everyday health. Please.

"Grok"

Paleo-evangalism, and also, people expressing astonishment that people who aren't eating paleo can still be healthy and thin, and wondering how that might happen. Also people then qualifying that with "well, they're thin, but since they're not eating paleo, how do you know they don't have all kinds of health problems?" Come on.

Thinking that food is the cause of, and the cure for, every single little problem that someone might have, ever. Sometimes people get sick or have a headache or an upset stomach or a sore joint or can't sleep or whatever. It can't always be traced back to something in your diet.

Edit: I forgot the biggest one: The strange obsession some posters seem to have with their bowel movements, and the insistence on constantly asking questions about the colour/consistency/shape/frequency of PHer's shit.

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8239 · November 10, 2011 at 3:48 PM

Very well stated. "If it's CW, it must be wrong. If it questions CW it must be on the right track." To which I would add: "If it originated a very long time ago, its ancient practitioners must for that reason have been way, way better, more virtuous, than my poor benighted parents." Retro-romanticism, pure and simple.

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1600 · October 20, 2011 at 4:50 AM

Seconded!! The more I read and research the more I see of this. I finally had to tear myself away and just *be*. It really does remind me of some of the more religious folks who just cannot fathom how anyone else could be happy/healthy doing something different.

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529 · October 19, 2011 at 5:58 PM

Trying to eat healthy outside with little added to the food at a place like Whole Foods and everything contains soy, wheat or sugar! Flour in sweet potato mash?!

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788 · April 25, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Whole foods does have the best Rotisserie Chicken + Organic Salad bar. No additives to the chicken, no pesticides on the vegetables and olive oil + balsamic vinegar available for the dressing. If I am desperate for a meal its one of my guilt free options.

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529 · March 31, 2012 at 1:45 PM

Thanks for the warning I am more weary now.

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1571 · March 06, 2012 at 10:28 PM

Whole Foods prepared foods drives me nuts! I have sworn it off cuz of mislabeling on their part that ended up in me having a reaction. Boo.

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13635 · October 19, 2011 at 11:49 AM

The name Paleo itself.

Presentation slides from guys like Lustig that are packed with sooooo much info that that are useless.

The lack of paleo books that have been released in audio format.

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3280 · October 19, 2011 at 11:06 PM

Lustig totally needs a lesson in effective slide presentation.

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3808 · October 19, 2011 at 4:32 PM

Yup, hard to get people to take you seriously when you're talking about Paleo this-or-that.

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213 · October 19, 2011 at 3:28 PM

+1 Try having a unibrow and long arms, then telling people you're on the 'caveman diet'. Doesn't seem so appealing. And no I'm not a monster, this is hypothetical :P

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 1:47 PM

I could do without the Paleo and Cave Man names. Grok can go too...a bit too cute for me.

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7223 · October 19, 2011 at 4:03 AM

I'll see your Whole Paycheck and Nomenclature and I'll raise you some over-the-top Nutritionism.

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321 · November 28, 2012 at 5:35 PM

I just call it Food Hole.

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 6:01 PM

When I hear people actually mouth "whole paycheck" I want to bust them in the mouth

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213 · October 19, 2011 at 3:22 PM

Asking a cute girl to lunch then realizing you're not going to be eating. Or you'll bring your own food and have to convince her you're not crazy for thinking bread is poisonous.

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50 · January 25, 2012 at 6:04 AM

Yup. Guys who cook = hawt. That'll turn your lifestyle into a plus in her eyes pretty quick.

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 4:30 PM

Better yet, invite her to a picnic that you prepared. Guys who can cook are a turn-on. She probably won't even notice there is no bread on the menu!

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1227 · October 19, 2011 at 1:48 PM

Paleoid Cookbooks that promise much and then deliver way too many Chicken receipes. I want more meat, yes Kamal, duck confit and how to use duck fat. Flanken receipes, even turkey, but I am sick of chicken receipes. Who eats chicken?

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1571 · March 06, 2012 at 10:23 PM

Kewpie - I resemble that comment. Glad I've got so many resources to browse/choose from.

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4347 · October 20, 2011 at 1:00 AM

I review a lot of cookbooks, and have got to say... I'm not impressed with many of the ones I see now. Maybe that's just because I consider myself an okay cook and don't need a terrible amount of instruction anymore? I will say that I have purchased two paleo cookbooks (one is not yet here) with the hopes of re-inspiring me. I'm always up for new ideas, but only if they're truly something out of my usual realm. I'm just not impressed by cookbooks for people who've never fried an egg anymore.

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10176 · October 19, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Chicken is for the birds.

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7223 · October 19, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Amen, AdrianaG! I've been disappointed in every paleo cookbook I've seen so far. They all seem to be geared toward people who have never cooked anything more advanced than a microwave dinner.

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1059 · October 19, 2011 at 4:29 PM

If you already know how to cook, I don't see a need for paleo cookbooks at all, unless you are bound and determined to find "paleo substitutes" for all of the flour based goodies that were staples of your CW diet.

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1130 · October 19, 2011 at 10:37 AM

1) Enforcing the "human are just animals" worldview.

2) Seeing other nutrition approaches as inferior.

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320 · February 16, 2013 at 12:16 PM

#2 is indeed annoying. It seems that virtually any diet other than an SAD is healthier than an SAD. :-D

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 5:58 PM

I like #2 a lot. Lots of people get healthier than they'd otherwise be on a million other ways of eatig.

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85 · February 10, 2012 at 9:32 PM

Getting in and out of the grocery store in no time flat, bags of healthy food, feeling like a boss, going home and husband asking "Did you get light bulbs/soap/some other thing that is in one of the aisles?" Right! The aisles! I always forget. We haven't had working light bulbs in our bedside lamps in months and there's watered down dish soap in the bathroom soap dispenser.

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180 · October 20, 2011 at 9:29 AM

My #1 issue is simple: Too much promotion of "order grass-fed X online here" or "buy steaks from Argentina because they are grass-fed", etc.

I am certainly not arguing against pastured products - in fact, if it's a choice between not eating meat and supporting CAFO/industrialized practices, I vote no meat. Sorry guys. I realize this is something most of us don't want to hear because, sadly, bettering one's self often is NOT synonymous with bettering the community and/or environment. Far too many people run out and buy steaks shipped from thousands of kilometers away or "bio/organic" veggies that are usually A: out of season and B: also shipped from a far-off land where they happen to be in season at the time. I know it's hard to find local sources of most things but it's surely not impossible.

So, my biggest issue with Paleo/Fruitarian/whatever-else-here is that MOST of these ways of eating ask that you think of only yourself. Every time you buy that steak from Argentina or New Zealand you are voting to support globalization which has more ill-effects on the environment and community directly than simply buying from a local farmer that might feed his 3 cows grains during colder months. I would (idealistically, I know) like to see more of us shop more consciously! Do the research, ask around, etc. I am willing to bet that most of us can find local solutions.

Eat with the seasons, eat locally, sustainably and consciously. :)

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180 · October 21, 2011 at 2:17 PM

You absolutely are lucky! I have long considered making the move. Currently in Germany and while Europe is "better" than the US, it's still a bit rough here.

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65 · October 21, 2011 at 8:29 AM

Except I live *in* New Zealand, so I'm bloody lucky.

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24271 · October 21, 2011 at 4:17 AM

+! for "in fact, if it's a choice between not eating meat and supporting CAFO/industrialized practices, I vote no meat." I agree completely.

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5135 · October 20, 2011 at 3:49 PM

Plenty of paleo people eat seasonally/locally and promote that way of thinking.

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747 · October 20, 2011 at 2:51 PM

Furthermore South America, especially, has much more lighter laws about their food production that we do. They use pesticides quite liberally and many of them are outlawed state side.

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4059 · October 19, 2011 at 6:00 PM

My complaint is that my son thinks I'm going to die real soon because of eating paleo, that I am starving myself, that I have an eating disorder, and that if I just ate white rice and quinoa, all would be well.

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4059 · October 20, 2011 at 4:33 PM

That's cold! (but heh heh)

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4080 · October 20, 2011 at 3:51 PM

If you son is old enough, just reassure him that should you be damaging your health -its all the sooner he will get his inheritance. So basically he should shut it. Or you could reverse things and say that you are glad that he is eating SAD, because it will accelerate his death -and since yours will be lengthened -you can die at the same time -together.

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12847 · October 19, 2011 at 9:26 AM

Mark Sisson-

"I ran marathons all the time in my 20s and 30s and had lots of itis's and lung infections etc"

"I'm 58 now and feel a lot better than in my 20s and 30s when I was on a high carb diet"

So high carb diets are bad.

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8239 · November 10, 2011 at 3:42 PM

Put yourself out there as much as Mark does, and you create a lot of intellectual territory to shoot at. Actually I feel compassion for Mr. Sisson. He obviously does not own a shirt. He deserves one.

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18635 · October 19, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Ah yes, so you mean the people who misconstrue the message...got it.

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18635 · October 19, 2011 at 6:19 PM

Hmmm...I never got "chronic cardio" to include that? In fact all I ever see is him promoting LOTS of low level activity. Yeah ben, I think its a comprehension/reading problem. Ah well.

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7540 · October 19, 2011 at 6:11 PM

Yeah. He's a great writer and his posts are always enjoyable, it's too bad people don't seem to actually read them all the way through (e.g. I've never seen him say that doing any running, ever, will hurt you, but if you browse the forums you can see lots of posts to that effect)

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 6:00 PM

Hey Olives, yeah (again although I really enjoy listening and reading his stuff) many people run amoc with his wording "chronic cardio" and suddenly think my 3 mile runs are going to have adverse effects.

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7540 · October 19, 2011 at 5:52 PM

My least favourite thing about Sisson is the fact that he's responsible for popularizing the hokey, annoying "Grok" concept. Also for the fact that people worry that running 10k a week or walking too much is "chronic cardio".

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5135 · October 19, 2011 at 5:14 PM

Seems to me this is a pretty bad misinterpretation of his message. You're confusing what got him questioning with the answers he came up with.

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15976 · October 19, 2011 at 1:24 PM

while I enjoy his book, and think hes a great speaker, Im with you cliff on his spotty thinking here. I always hear him and just think "its cuz you ate shitty food and ran too much. thats it."

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8574 · November 10, 2011 at 2:38 PM

That I now actually spend time reading posts with titles such as:

"Hack my poop :)"

"Would you eat a cricket?"

"Are there any traditional cultures who consume a lot of eggs?"

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747 · October 20, 2011 at 2:49 PM

As a non-paleo eater... here are somethings that I have an issue with when reading on paleo sites that confuse me and irritate me about paleo.

a) I feel that paleo eaters can never agree with each other on what's good or bad other than SAD is bad. Well the clean eating diet said that years back, and to some degree Atkins as well. Otherwise it feels like everyone is walking blind holding up their food to each other going...Paleo? Paleo? Paleo?

b) When some explains why we shouldn't eat x, y,z (especially nightshades) a bunch of scientific sounding mumbo jumbo is thrown out and all it does is confuses your otherwise willing paleo participants.

c) every delicious sounding recipe has a coconut in it.... I'm allergic and it makes me sad :-P

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90 · October 20, 2011 at 5:31 PM

I feel you on C, but mine is Eggs... I feel like every recipe I see that I want to try has Eggs in it, and there is no good substitute

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6229 · October 19, 2011 at 11:35 PM

Here my venting:

1)Friends and family members think everything in conventional wisdom is okay to eat - beans, peanuts, soy, whole grains, quinoa, wheatgrass, low-fat. Then I have to painfully explain why there are problems with these foods and cite them scientifically! Ouch! Then they look at me like, "What the hell do you eat, then?"

2) Late night arguments (like till 2am) with the hubby about whether "X-food" is Paleo or "X supplement" is going to help or harm. This is seriously messing with the whole premise of Lights Out book. Cortisol and insulin spike just from this!

3) Oh why does the burger chain Be Good have to Be Bad and drizzle a tiny amount of canola oil on their baked gluten-free sweet potatoes fries (YES not even cross-contaminated)!

4) Spice mix, sauce, or paste used for years and otherwise Paleo but cross-contaminated with gluten. Why did you have to make your spices with !@#^& wheat! Do you know how many spices I've thrown away or given away! :(

5) I spend too much time with cooking, recipes, etc. but now I'm a food snob. I complain about what's wrong with so many foods - both at restaurants, and other people's cooking (even Paleo) - not to their face of course! I bring my own salt and Kerrygold butter to restaurants.

6) Why can't I like liver??!! I've tried 3 recipes, and 1 I like, 1 the hubby liked, and 1 neither liked! Why can't I find 1 liver recipe WE both like! I've adapted to tallow, ghee, and coconut oil (all 3 used to turn my stomach), so why can't I eat the most Paleo thing of all - liver!

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788 · April 25, 2012 at 1:26 PM

I was in the same boat. I highly recommend Liverwurst (bought mine from US Wellness) or other types of liver sausage. The taste is completely different.

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1373 · October 19, 2011 at 10:48 PM

Definitely. Definitely. Definitely too much science. I can't listen to peers talk about nutrition anymore as they spout unthoughtful nonsense. "We need to eat toast for fiber", "If you eat too much protein your kidneys will fail". "I shouldn't eat fat because I won't burn it off in my low intensity lifestyle." "I can eat whatever I want 6 days a week, have one all protein day, and still lose weight, because Dr. Whaszisface says so in his book." I have to duct tape my mouth shut most of the time.

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1373 · October 20, 2011 at 7:48 PM

I very much like my ascribed username more than Mary E Clark consulting as well. Thank YOU for creating this thread, because otherwise I would have forcibly kidnapped everyone I know and then taken them to mandatory biochemistry class. I would have chained them to their chairs.

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24523 · October 19, 2011 at 11:05 PM

When I saw your username a couple times before, I thought it was "Mary E Clark Consulting". The actual username is much better. So thanks for having the username you ascribed to yourself and not the one I imagined.

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10176 · October 19, 2011 at 7:00 PM

Bacon and eggs. Grok didn't have them. They're completely SAD. And they're the most heavenly of rewarding foods. Two complaints:

People who write 400 page diet blogs, plans and books which in the end recommend eating bacon and eggs.

People who buy those plans and books and think they've discovered something new.

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3789 · October 23, 2011 at 1:06 AM

None of us eat a real paleolithic diet. We don't hunt and gather now extinct species on the African savannah. Asking whether "Grok" had something is of no value, since we have access to almost none of the foods he ate. If that's the requirement, we might as well go back to eating Twinkies.

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37187 · October 22, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Grok probably found eggs only during spring/early summer. I've thought about it, though, and by itself that's no reason to avoid them. My questions about eggs and milk are more in the area that they are perfect foods for fast-growing babies but not necessarily ideal for mature adults.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Grok wasn't stupid. Get a flat rock hot, crack open and egg, and there you have it. Did he have eggs in the quantity we now have them? No. But I can guarantee you he knew how to cook them and when to find them.

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3891 · October 21, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Grok wasn't stupid. Get a rock hot, drop an egg on it. Did he have eggs in the quantity we now have them? No. But I can guarantee you he knew how to cook them.

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10176 · October 20, 2011 at 3:56 PM

Grok didn't have a skillet. He didn't have baconandeggs. Having an egg isn't the same thing.

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1371 · October 20, 2011 at 3:19 PM

grok didnt find eggs?? i know eggs are seasonal but cmon...

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350 · February 10, 2012 at 9:00 PM

Looking for quick snack ideas online & having people repeatedly say "a can of tuna & a fork is all I need" I'm a grad student...you're suggesting I take a can of tuna to campus (with my can opener), open the can and drain it in the bathroom sink, and dig in during lecture? No one will want to sit by the weird girl that smells like tuna.

Paelo pizza crust...it's just not the same & never will be. It's either a pancake, soggy veggies, burnt cheese, or meat-NOT crust.

Having teaching assistants bring candy to class to win us over then seeing I don't ever take a piece ask me in front of the entire class why I don't want any. I've realized people think I'm less crazy if I say I don't like candy than if I say I eat Paleo.

Thinking about all of the amazing dips my friends make in the summer (does anyone else equate summer with dips?) and knowing I will either a) have to make my own (with homemade mayo, cream cheese, no corn, etc.) b)not eat any c)cheat

Going out to eat and having the only paleo-ish options be the most expensive on the menu. "I guess I'll have the $23 ribeye." Refusing the free bread or tortilla chips at restaurants. Having a confusing and long ordering process when out to eat "I'll have a water to drink, then I'd like the salad with oil & vinegar, no croutons. I'll have the tilapia but not breaded and instead of the potatoes could I have veggies or fruit, thanks."

The closest Trader Joe's is 1.5 hours away :(

Not having raw dairy in Iowa (although I could probably find a nearby farm that would be willing to help me out).

My damn sweet tooth...always reminding me of all the things I can't eat!!

Cooking, all the damn time.

Phew, that felt good.

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4176 · April 09, 2012 at 6:16 PM

You aren't missing out on much with Trader Joe's. I live next to one and it is mostly a corn, soy, and wheat mecca.

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350 · February 12, 2012 at 9:46 PM

eek. I can't complain too much because we are members of a Co-Op but TJs is just so cheap.

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37187 · February 10, 2012 at 10:17 PM

I hear you! I'm about 2 hours away from anything. I asked one of the few fresh produce "tents" in my area if she had anything organic and her jaw dropped (sigh).

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12540 · October 19, 2011 at 7:12 PM

  • List item Nomenclature- Explaining to friends and strangers how you eat is a challenge. Paleo? Unprocessed? Ancestral? Paleo 2.6?

RESPONSE: "AncPrim 49.1: The Rise of the Mountain Goat Milkers" here!

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1021 · February 16, 2013 at 12:14 PM

buying coconut oil from the other side of the planet rather than just using butter.

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511 · February 16, 2013 at 10:45 AM

bacon haters

People that think paleo = atkins diet

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628 · November 28, 2012 at 3:46 PM

Okay my turn...

I'm a college student and every important meeting I have to go to they offer "free pizza". I don't want to smell or see pizza nor have anyone look at me crazy for not eating it. I'm almost to the point of avoiding meetings.

My roommates are Brazilian, I love them but they put sugar and sweetened condensed milk on EVERYTHING. Rice for every dinner meal, followed by a dessert. It's tough to avoid things in my own fridge. I have to reach over the ice cream to grab some chicken breast. Not ideal.

Family events! My grandma try's to make me eat everything because i'm "too skinny". I am not too skinny.

I'm just going to stop here. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

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3501 · February 10, 2012 at 9:28 PM

Sometimes I truly just miss the pure joy of eating a gol dang sugar infested cupcake or piece of cake or pie without my mind going into a emergency overdrive and yelling at me to STOP STOP STOP and think of what its going to do to my body, like I'll explode all over the place. There are days when I miss being ignorant. There are days when I feel like food has become my own personal mental terrorist.

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1002 · February 11, 2012 at 6:13 AM

This post strikes a chord with me. I'm pretty new at this, still trying to drop certain things from my diet. I had an eating disorder long long ago, and I am beginning to see that thinking too much about what is paleo, what I can and can't eat if I'm "paleo" is going to trigger that behavior. I do not want to get to the point where all I think about is what I am/am not going to eat. Been there, done that. I think I'd better keep some of my ignorance and peace of mind.

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1867 · October 19, 2011 at 4:22 AM

Nutrient ratio bean counting mo-fo's! (yep I like flavored creamer in my coffee sometimes!)

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965 · February 15, 2013 at 11:53 PM

I just hate it when people assume I'm eating something freaky and gross when they learn I eat healthy. Ill pull a tupperware thing out of my purse, somebody will yell "What is that!?!?", I answer "chicken salad with cherry tomatoes", "Oh. lol."

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146 · February 10, 2012 at 9:40 PM

Jeez....just dont eat a lot of wheat, other grains. Leave out on the sugar. Don't eat stuff cooked in crap veg oils. Look for good sources for your meat. If any particular time, you have to compromise, like its a birthday party and there is cake, just fricken eat it. WTF. Enjoy. Not hard. Follow the guidelines in general. Go big on the good stuff and small on the bad.

Freaken easy, stop whining.

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146 · February 22, 2012 at 5:44 AM

The thread was about whining - so that was my whine. Yes its true that some people cannot tolerate certain foods and have to be "religious" about avoiding them, and I dod not mean to be insensitive to that. But when I see questions like "Can a paleo have a relationship with a non-paleo?" I start to wonder if dogmatism is overtaking sensibility. Hence my whine above. We do not live in the stone age. We are following guidelines, not commandments.

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3501 · February 11, 2012 at 4:17 PM

I agree in that I think ou missed the spirit in which this particular thread is meant for but I do agree with you in the sense that I myself need to quit Freaksn, it really isn't THAT hard and wow, what a "first world problem"...nothing to whine about. Enjoy life!

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37187 · February 10, 2012 at 10:20 PM

First, this whole thread is for the purpose of whining. No one made you open it. Second, many people, me included, will be sick for 2 weeks or longer if we accidentally eat even a trace of wheat. To me, you're the whiner for not respecting the thread. -1

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8239 · November 10, 2011 at 4:03 PM

Goodness knows I have complaints. Plenty, about lots of things. I am learning, slowly, to let my complaints fend for themselves. I find when I feed them, they get big and often turn mean. So thanks for this invitation to help compile and cultivate a particular subset of complaints related to eating and exercise topics. Darn, I just find it more fun, in the happiness sense, to focus on what's working. Ask for "wins" I've achieved or am working toward, or stuff I'm basically grateful for, I may have a thought or two to offer.

I hate Mark Sisson's lean physique. Oh, hell I can't resist.

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1659 · November 10, 2011 at 7:30 AM

This post is my Paleo complaint.

Chipotle meat is cooked in Soy Bean Oil??? You just ruined it for me...

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145 · February 16, 2013 at 4:45 PM

PEANUT BUTTER! I'm not sure I can actually live without it.

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