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Are there any good supplements to replace organ meats?

by (8858)
Updated about 11 hours ago
Created November 29, 2010 at 10:09 PM

I ask mainly out of ignorance of, and aversion to, preparation of beef liver (for example). Have no idea what to do with it and not sure I'd find the results pleasing. I see Dr. Ron's has (expensive) supplement products. Worthwhile? How about Cod Liver oil? Fermented or non-fermented? I eat lots of meat and fish but fear that I'm missing out on some essential elements.

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8858 · November 30, 2010 at 3:00 PM

In a related archived post, someone suggested that ground beef and/or hot dogs might be close to the same thing as eating organ meats. There are tasty grass-fed options. Thoughts?

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3885 · November 30, 2010 at 4:11 AM

one should also try Goat/Lamb liver which has a distinctly different taste/texture from both beef and chicken livers. Some people just adapt to different tastes.

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2312 · November 30, 2010 at 3:55 AM

Beef liver is more fibrous. Chicken liver is more of a liverwurst texture.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3
20787 · November 30, 2010 at 3:53 AM

Might want to dry blending it the blender and then cooking it.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3
20787 · November 30, 2010 at 3:52 AM

For those who can get enough sun, that is the most natural way to get D.

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2269 · November 30, 2010 at 2:58 AM

I gave it [liver] a shot last weekend... it wasn't the taste so much as the fibrous texture that made me gag around the fourth bite. Blorf. Pâté, liverwurst, sure. But not the whole slimy slithery thing pls.

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4359 · November 30, 2010 at 1:11 AM

Ambmorph, I would clearly recommend vit D, but the question wasn't what supplements would I recommend for somebody avoiding the sun - it was about avoiding liver.

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18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:43 PM

Hmm. Well, I guess it depends where you look. Chris Kresser has a table that shows 19 IU of D in 100g of beef liver.

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18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:37 PM

I've seen arguments on both sides of the A-inhibits-D issue. Beef liver doesn't have D, though, so if you eat lots of liver, and no dairy, you still may have a D problem.

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18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:31 PM

I agree, dairy fat is a good source of A, D, and K.

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18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:30 PM

I agree, butter is a good source of A, D, and K.

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4359 · November 29, 2010 at 11:25 PM

And by the way, if the question concerns which vitamins in liver should be replaaced by supplements, I think dairy fat is a pretty important cnosideration.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94
4359 · November 29, 2010 at 11:24 PM

Not overdose, but inhibiting vitamin D function. The active metabolite of retinol, all trans retinoic acid, and the active metabolite of vitamin D, cacitriol, compete for the RXR nuclear receptor. After a certain point (well below overdose territory), more retinol = less vit D activation of RXR. Since vit D seems to prevent most cancers (a trick which retinol does not perform), I wouldn't fuck with it. There's epidemiolgical evidecne from Scandinavia backing this theory up. I;'ve posted it here bfore or you can look at vit D councl archives.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1
18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:11 PM

Beef liver and dairy fat are hardly comparable. They are not mutually exclusive -- I assume you are worried about vitamin A overdose?

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5 Answers

best answer

6a9d8fd0d47d8379a8a0280c72122d77
3
103 · November 30, 2010 at 1:15 AM

I don't eat any organ meats so I supplement with:

  • Vitamin K2 MK7 90cmg 2-4 times/week
  • Vitamin K2 MK4 5mg 1-3 times/week
  • Cod Liver Oil 30ml/week
  • Vitamin D3 5000IU 5 times/week
  • Creatine 2-3g/day (also for performance but found in high concentrations in organs esp heart)
  • Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA) taken randomly
  • Probiotic also taken randomly
  • Partial dose of a good Multi-Vitamin (on days I prepare and cook all my own food I skip it entirely)

I am a young student who eats very good Paleo but low variation and nothing fancy (sausages and salad would best summarize my diet ;) ). As life goes on I do plan to expand my daily menu to incorporate organ meats, and also cultured & fermented foods. Until then I am supplementing as best I can to emulate a fully comprehensive ancestral diet with a nod to modern medical science.

best answer

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3
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20787 · November 30, 2010 at 4:15 AM

Personally, I think that all the vitamins in organ meat could be gotten through other food items or other ways. Vit D from the sun, vit A and folate from spinach, b12 from other kinds of meat including muscle meat, Copper might be a harder one to replace in quantity, but other foods like kiwi and avocado have it as well. The convenience of liver is that it has a lot of nutrients packed into each bite, but you could still get all those nutrients by eating other healthy whole foods instead.

531db50c958cf4d5605ee0c5ae8a57be
8858 · November 30, 2010 at 3:00 PM

In a related archived post, someone suggested that ground beef and/or hot dogs might be close to the same thing as eating organ meats. There are tasty grass-fed options. Thoughts?

7d5d98a0453db2ae67358a3169888aca
3
263 · November 29, 2010 at 11:25 PM

I would suggest giving real liver a try before spending any money on an expensive supplement. Liver is cheap; If you don't like it it's not a big loss, and you may end up really enjoying it. Here's a simple recipe: http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2008/03/food-liver-and-bacon.html

Cfccbcf3450ac4919311ded8ef162d49
2312 · November 30, 2010 at 3:55 AM

Beef liver is more fibrous. Chicken liver is more of a liverwurst texture.

A089b683ee0498f2b21b7edfa300e405
3885 · November 30, 2010 at 4:11 AM

one should also try Goat/Lamb liver which has a distinctly different taste/texture from both beef and chicken livers. Some people just adapt to different tastes.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3
20787 · November 30, 2010 at 3:53 AM

Might want to dry blending it the blender and then cooking it.

C53665c3f012fa1ede91033b08a8a6e7
2269 · November 30, 2010 at 2:58 AM

I gave it [liver] a shot last weekend... it wasn't the taste so much as the fibrous texture that made me gag around the fourth bite. Blorf. Pâté, liverwurst, sure. But not the whole slimy slithery thing pls.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94
2
4359 · November 29, 2010 at 10:50 PM

If I ate a lot of beef liver, I would eat no dairy fat. This inconvenient posture is probably the purest from the paleo perspective.

If I ate no beef liver, I would eat plenty of dairy fat and ensure adequate vitamin K by taking a low-dose supplement. I wouldn't be surprised if all forms of k are similarly effective in vitamin D replete people, but since that hasn't been established yet, you have to guess. It seems to be that K2 (mk-7), K2 (mk-4), or K1 are all reasonable bets. This category is where I am and I alternate days between thorne's D/mk-4 drops (100mcg K2), 100 mcg K1, and 45 mcg mk-7/

If I ate no beef liver or dairy fat, I might take a low-dose vitamin A pill along with the vitamin K regiment I described above.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1
18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:30 PM

I agree, butter is a good source of A, D, and K.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1
18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:11 PM

Beef liver and dairy fat are hardly comparable. They are not mutually exclusive -- I assume you are worried about vitamin A overdose?

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1
18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:43 PM

Hmm. Well, I guess it depends where you look. Chris Kresser has a table that shows 19 IU of D in 100g of beef liver.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94
4359 · November 30, 2010 at 1:11 AM

Ambmorph, I would clearly recommend vit D, but the question wasn't what supplements would I recommend for somebody avoiding the sun - it was about avoiding liver.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1
18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:31 PM

I agree, dairy fat is a good source of A, D, and K.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94
4359 · November 29, 2010 at 11:25 PM

And by the way, if the question concerns which vitamins in liver should be replaaced by supplements, I think dairy fat is a pretty important cnosideration.

62ed65f3596aa2f62fa1d58a0c09f8c3
20787 · November 30, 2010 at 3:52 AM

For those who can get enough sun, that is the most natural way to get D.

100fd85230060e754fc13394eee6d6f1
18671 · November 29, 2010 at 11:37 PM

I've seen arguments on both sides of the A-inhibits-D issue. Beef liver doesn't have D, though, so if you eat lots of liver, and no dairy, you still may have a D problem.

4781cf8ae1bfcb558dfb056af17bea94
4359 · November 29, 2010 at 11:24 PM

Not overdose, but inhibiting vitamin D function. The active metabolite of retinol, all trans retinoic acid, and the active metabolite of vitamin D, cacitriol, compete for the RXR nuclear receptor. After a certain point (well below overdose territory), more retinol = less vit D activation of RXR. Since vit D seems to prevent most cancers (a trick which retinol does not perform), I wouldn't fuck with it. There's epidemiolgical evidecne from Scandinavia backing this theory up. I;'ve posted it here bfore or you can look at vit D councl archives.

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1036 · November 29, 2010 at 10:37 PM

I'm about half way through my first bottle of Dr. Ron's Organ Delight. Expensive is a relative term and there's not a surefire way to know if you're benefitting from it. You basically need to do your own research and ask yourself if you want to commit to it. You won't see or feel any results by trying them for 3-6 months.

I bought fermented cod liver oil and butter oil as well. Both of those should last 12 weeks.

Another thing you can do if cost is an issue is supplement Organ Delight every other month. Better than nothing and half the price. IMO, alternating supplements and taking time off from them makes sense in a Paleo lifestyle. Keeps you from becoming deficient. And I doubt our ancestors every had access to any nutrient on a daily basis.

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