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Gelatin -- A Healthy Protein Powder?

by (951)
Updated about 5 hours ago
Created September 30, 2011 at 12:16 AM

I just came across this article which talks about gelatin as a healthy protein powder:

http://www.foodrenegade.com/gelatin-healthy-protein-powder/

I am very intrigued by it because I would like to supplement my diet with extra protein, but don't because I dislike the ingredients of most traditional protein shakes. My questions are:

  1. Has anyone used gelatin as a "protein powder."
  2. Would you use it the same as you would a protein shake (PWO, etc.)?

Thanks for your help.

96440612cf0fcf366bf5ad8f776fca84
17103 · March 09, 2014 at 10:16 PM

Putting a link back to your own website counts as spamming. We don't like spam here. Behave or your account will be deleted.

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5 · February 26, 2014 at 11:48 AM

Why do you think milk is generally excluded in paleo ? Why do you think Loren Cordain suggested to limit egg to 6/week due to its whites and egg whites are excluded in autoimmune protocols ? All have reasons...

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5 · February 26, 2014 at 11:43 AM

Check this for example:

http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/jyelon/lowcarb.med/topic9.html

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5 · February 25, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Egg white and milk proteins wouldn't be my choices, especially egg white, you know, because of the lysozyme, permeability and autoimmunity issues. Gelatin also is much less than a complete protein, it is mostly glycine and proline, it doesn't have a proper ratio of amino acids to be used as a protein powder. Maybe you can explain more...

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10768 · September 18, 2012 at 6:32 PM

@Kamal: You keep asking for sources... what I want are Citations. SCIENCE!!!

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8933 · February 20, 2012 at 10:42 AM

Man you all got me confused. Sometimes I think Quilt is just making things up and laughing at us behind his desk.

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3891 · September 30, 2011 at 5:20 PM

This web page has excitotoxins in it. Look out!

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 3:30 PM

Interesting fact: A breakfast made up beef containing 50 grams of protein can contain 10 grams of glutamate. In contrast 10 grams of gelatin contains only 0.5 grams of glutamate.

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 3:10 PM

Glutamate is the deprotonated form of glutamic acid such as in the case of a salt like MSG. However glutamic acid is also deprotonated under physiological pH. So any glutamic acid that you consume from any source is in the form of free glutamate in your body. Whether it is from steak, gelatin or MSG it all ends up as glutamate in your plasma.

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 3:04 PM

Both skin and bones are mainly composed of the same type 1 collagen and so should have a similar amino acid composition. Glutamic acid makes up about 10% of the amino acids in gelatin.

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182 · September 30, 2011 at 2:58 PM

@Quilt - Whey protein has excitotoxins? This is news to me. Are they created during the processing, as it is hydrolyzed? Or does whey normally contain them?

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4359 · September 30, 2011 at 2:54 PM

QUILT, this is just mechanistic speculation. Moreover, it doesn't even seem well-founded.

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8879 · September 30, 2011 at 2:16 PM

@Quilt: Do you have that study you did published anywhere? Even on your hard drive where you can email me a copy? carbsane at gmail dot com. I guess I need to stop throwing my whole chix carcasses and leftover skin (I don't eat chix skin except when crispy fried on wings) in when making my broths. I second Kamal's request for a reference on this. Thanks in advance.

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8879 · September 30, 2011 at 2:06 PM

Joshua, this is a bit unnecessarily alarming. Gelatin is not a good protein for meal replacements, but it is excellent for overall intake.

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 12:19 PM

@Quilt - You seriously need to go and read a biochemistry textbook so that you understand the difference between *glutamic acid* and *glutamate*.

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2729 · September 30, 2011 at 10:09 AM

The only ingredient in Knox gelatin is "gelatin." are they putting MSG in it and not printing that on the label? I'm confused.

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 9:31 AM

@Quilt - Glutamic acid does equal MSG under physiological conditions. It you put table salt in water is dissolves separating into sodium and chloride. The same happens with MSG in your body. MSG becomes free glutamic acid and sodium.

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78422 · September 30, 2011 at 8:12 AM

Its easier to make cheese from goat. No smell and more delicious.

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78422 · September 30, 2011 at 8:09 AM

lysine and proline are also essential for strong collagen and cardiovascular function. This limits cancer's ability to spread around. Pauling therapy is basically Lysin+Prolin+C.

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951 · September 30, 2011 at 5:28 AM

Oh no you did-unt.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 5:12 AM

Me too. I don't claim to really know anything about this. But if there is evidence that home-made bone broth contains significantly less free glutamate than powdered gelatin made from skin, I'm all ears (eyes). (which would also be good for gelatin making)

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951 · September 30, 2011 at 4:31 AM

Sometimes questions lead to more questions...and I'm more confused than ever.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 4:01 AM

"We have had several inquiries asking if Great Lakes Gelatin products not contain free glutamic acid. Great Lakes Gelatin sent both gelatin and the enzymatically hydrolyzed product to an independent laboratory. Northland Laboratories measured total free amino acid and free glutamic acid as % weight of solids..."

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:30 AM

In other words, if you had commercial gelatin tested, did you also test bone broth? And when you tested commercial gelatin, what kind did you test?

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:28 AM

Why does the glutamic acid in skin gelatin lead to more glutamate in comparison to connective tissue gelatin's glutamic acid?

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:23 AM

Glutamic acid doesnt equal MSG. Glutamic acid is an amino acid found in abundance in both plant and animal protein. In humans it is a non-essential amino acid, i.e., the body is capable of producing its own glutamic acid, and is not dependent upon getting glutamic acid from ingested food. Glutamate is glutamic acid to which a mineral ion has been attached. (Researchers call this mineral ion a “salt”.) If the mineral ion is sodium, the glutamic acid becomes sodium glutamate. If the mineral ion is potassium, the glutamic acid becomes potassium glutamate.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:19 AM

all these vaccines also have MSG in them.Note: Gelatin and ingredients that use the word Hydrolyzed contain Glutamate. MMR - Measles-Mumps-Rubella, Merck & Co., Inc.: *measles, mumps, rubella live virus, neomycin sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin, chick embryonic fluid, and human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue. M-R-Vax - Measles-Rubella, Merck & Co., Inc.: *measles, rubella live virus, neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin, chick embryonic fluid, and human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue. Attenuvax – Measles, Merck & Co., Inc.: *measles live virus,neomycin,sorbitol, hydrolyzed

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:19 AM

I just looked it up. Ground beef has more glutamic acid than one serving of Great Lakes gelatin. Explain more, please!

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:17 AM

But isn't there more glutamate in a serving of meat than in a tablespoon of supplemental (pure) gelatin? I could look it up, but you might know off hand.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:17 AM

Yes Kamal skin does......muscle meat has glutamine......big difference. But for more knowledge almost all sausage in the USA has MSG added too. Its the one meat a paleo has to worry about.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:15 AM

Kamal......we went further. We used the commerical gelatin and tested it via our lab.....and it had glutamate in it in vitro and then people with migraines and tumors ate it and had a LP done with fluid extracted at 15 minute intervals. When people ate it.....in the migraine clinic we can find it in their CSF within 15 to minutes via an LP. Their headaches also were above what one would expect from a normal LP too. Most people with Migraine have to avoid all commercial gelatins.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:13 AM

P.S. Why is glutamine / glutamic acid in muscle meat not an equal concern then? Eating a steak would contain much more of that than a tablespoon of supplemental gelatin.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:12 AM

Skin has more glutamine and/or glutamic acid? Interesting. Source?

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:12 AM

That link also doesn't address the question. Any gelatin (for example, gelatinous bone broth) will have glutamine / glutamic acid.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:12 AM

Kamal it does not contain skin usually which has the moieties we worry about. If you have the butcher do it right and just leave cartilage and ligaments on the bone this is the ideal way to make it and it has no chance of causing us trouble.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:11 AM

Your second link is only referring to gelatin that has MSG added under hidden names. Have you ever bought plain, powdered gelatin? It is simply powdered broth.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:10 AM

http://www.healthtruthrevealed.com/articles/093141101/article

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:09 AM

Please explain how home made bone broth (producing gelatin) is different than gelatin made from pig skin and powdered in amino acid profile. Both have glutamine. Most (paleo) people get the regular, unhydrolyzed gelatin. Is the website "slick" simply because it is a web page from a company? Because everything they say looks true -- there is no added MSG, and this doesn't seem any different than gelatin made at home.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:08 AM

From a pharmacist....http://www.thecompounder.com/answers-a-ideas/things-to-avoid/msg-in-food/msg-a-gelatin

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:07 AM

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_259-260/ai_n10299306/pg_2/

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:05 AM

reference Jay......CSF studies are about the best I can give you. We do lumbar taps and it shows up. I dont think there is a better experimental test. Id love to share the people's names but I can tell you several of them have posted comments in my MSG series.....go over there and ask them. I cant say a word because of HIPPA but they can tell you if they choose too.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:03 AM

Glutamic Acid Hydrolyzed protein Autolyzed protein Textured protein Yeast extract Autolyzed yeast extract Protein isolate Soy sauce Modified food starch Modified corn starch Calcium caseinate Sodlium caseinate Broth Maltodextrin Seasonings Natural flavor Monopotassium glutamate Glutamate Gelatin Hydrolyzed vegetable protein Hydrolyzed plant protein Textured protein Yeast food Yeast nutrient Torula yeast These are all the nicknames of MSG. Check you labels.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:00 AM

Jeff go to the farmer or WF and get grass fed bones and cook them in wine with water for about 20 hrs in a crock pot. You will get great gelatin that is safe and has huge amounts of great things that wont hurt you and will help your gut and your joints. I recommend this to all my spine patients and even teach them how to shop and make it.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 1:57 AM

Hydrolyzed glutamine is one of the faster molecules that crosses the BBB too.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
25467 · September 30, 2011 at 1:57 AM

the glutamine moiety becomes an excitotoxin (glutamate) that crosses the BBB and concentrates at site with injury or a leaky BBB. We can measure it in the CSF within 15 minutes of ingestion.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 1:55 AM

Glad you all bought the slick marketing on the web page. Maybe you Gentleman you all should pose the question to Matt or Robb and see what happens to this moiety when a human ingests it from a biochemistry standpoint in our guts. In our brain tumor protocols all patients are told to avoid any commercial gelatin. I am not anti gelatin......just anti commercial gelatin.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 1:52 AM

raw whey also has excitotoxins.....

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 1:50 AM

I take 10 grams. If my memory serves me correctly, Stabby takes 20 grams. Ray peat is all up in gelatin, if you want to google around there...http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml. The customized protein is nice because you can test it out -- like get a couple different one-pound increments of different proteins.

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4359 · September 30, 2011 at 1:50 AM

Reference for your statement?

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951 · September 30, 2011 at 1:41 AM

Thanks so much for your input. I heard about the customized protein a while back but never looked into it. I really like the idea of a healthy and quick source of supplemental protein like the hydrolyed gelatin you talked about. How much do you drink at a time?

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951 · September 30, 2011 at 1:37 AM

That is exactly how I would plan to use it--not as my primary source of protein but as a supplemental source when I simply don't get quite enough for number of reasons.

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15226 · September 30, 2011 at 1:34 AM

cool, that's what I use too.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 1:29 AM

Hey, strongman dude! When's Derek Poundstone gonna win WSM? Anyways, the gelatin thing is a little more complex. Once one has enough protein for body structure, enzymes, etc, gelatin can be a very good thing because of a few reasons (high in lysine and proline and not methionine, which could be good for life extension, good for joints, etc) The deaths in the 60's were because you really shouldn't depend on gelatin as a protein source on a PSMF diet because it's amino acid profile isn't good for a sole protein source. But as an adjunct, I'd totally use it if I was in the strongman biz.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 1:21 AM

Long time no see Big Ben!

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15976 · September 30, 2011 at 1:19 AM

I use the great lakes, too.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 1:15 AM

The gelatin that seems to be most widely used by paleohackers (including myself) is Great Lakes gelatin, available on Amazon. It contains no excitotoxins, as it is simply powdered collagen (regular or hydrolyzed)... http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/consumer/noMSG.php

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15226 · September 30, 2011 at 1:15 AM

Doc what kind of excitotoxins are in there? I've recently started using it.

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951 · September 30, 2011 at 12:49 AM

Well that's a major dissapointment. If I were to make my own, would it be in a semi-solid form that would need to be eaten, or is there something else I could do with it?

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21fd060d0796fdb8a4a990441e08eae7
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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 1:20 AM

If you want to use gelatin as a "protein powder", you might want to consider the hydrolyzed form, which dissolves without needing hot liquid.

I use gelatin for weeks at a time. So does Stabby, another paleohacker, and a couple more people if you check other gelatin threads. I personally don't make bone broth anymore because it's so stinky in my little apartment while cooking up!

There are no excitotoxins in pure gelatin products, such as Great Lakes gelatin. There are excitoxins in boxed foods that contain gelatin, such as Jello.

Another option, if you don't like the added ingredients in protein shakes, is to get pure milk protein, pure egg protein, or even a mix of the two. The two most well-known customized protein ordering websites (i.e. no sweetener, thickener, or flavor necessary) are Protein Factory and True Protein. Also, unflavored protein is available on Amazon, but sometimes more expensive and not able to be ordered in small quantities. Also also, organic unflavored protein is amazingly expensive, and a very rare bird as well.

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5 · February 25, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Egg white and milk proteins wouldn't be my choices, especially egg white, you know, because of the lysozyme, permeability and autoimmunity issues. Gelatin also is much less than a complete protein, it is mostly glycine and proline, it doesn't have a proper ratio of amino acids to be used as a protein powder. Maybe you can explain more...

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 1:50 AM

I take 10 grams. If my memory serves me correctly, Stabby takes 20 grams. Ray peat is all up in gelatin, if you want to google around there...http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml. The customized protein is nice because you can test it out -- like get a couple different one-pound increments of different proteins.

40449b985898b088a64660b40f329f0f
951 · September 30, 2011 at 1:41 AM

Thanks so much for your input. I heard about the customized protein a while back but never looked into it. I really like the idea of a healthy and quick source of supplemental protein like the hydrolyed gelatin you talked about. How much do you drink at a time?

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78422 · September 30, 2011 at 8:23 AM

Cheese is far easier to make yourself, and if its from goat its absolutely superior. Far greater taste too, especially in high grade olive oil.

Additionally, it comes with K2, Calcium [probably the best form] and other stuff like ??-lactalbumin.

Some people will complain now that its not paleo and sh*t like that, but ignore. If you do not have specific problems with cheese and you don not eat wheat, its generally no problem.

If you live in USA, you might want to find some good source or make your own from raw milk. In Europe, GBH is still forbidden which also means less antibiotic usage. But this is really not much different from any other animal.

Check out AA content: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=100+g+cheese

@Kamal, you like Audrey Tautou movies ? Next step is cheese if you want to be more in the spirit. Cooking bones is not what lady should do :P

gelatin----a-healthy-protein-powder?

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21405 · September 30, 2011 at 1:22 AM

No no no 1000 times no.

Back in the 60s people died of malnourishment due to a lack of nutritive value in gelatin protein supplements while following a fad psmf diet. Your body needs more than protein post workout. link text

I don't recommend it. Instead, there are Organic whole egg and raw whey powders available on the market. Whole egg protein is available from true protein.com

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3891 · September 30, 2011 at 5:20 PM

This web page has excitotoxins in it. Look out!

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182 · September 30, 2011 at 2:58 PM

@Quilt - Whey protein has excitotoxins? This is news to me. Are they created during the processing, as it is hydrolyzed? Or does whey normally contain them?

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8879 · September 30, 2011 at 2:06 PM

Joshua, this is a bit unnecessarily alarming. Gelatin is not a good protein for meal replacements, but it is excellent for overall intake.

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78422 · September 30, 2011 at 8:09 AM

lysine and proline are also essential for strong collagen and cardiovascular function. This limits cancer's ability to spread around. Pauling therapy is basically Lysin+Prolin+C.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 1:52 AM

raw whey also has excitotoxins.....

40449b985898b088a64660b40f329f0f
951 · September 30, 2011 at 1:37 AM

That is exactly how I would plan to use it--not as my primary source of protein but as a supplemental source when I simply don't get quite enough for number of reasons.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 1:29 AM

Hey, strongman dude! When's Derek Poundstone gonna win WSM? Anyways, the gelatin thing is a little more complex. Once one has enough protein for body structure, enzymes, etc, gelatin can be a very good thing because of a few reasons (high in lysine and proline and not methionine, which could be good for life extension, good for joints, etc) The deaths in the 60's were because you really shouldn't depend on gelatin as a protein source on a PSMF diet because it's amino acid profile isn't good for a sole protein source. But as an adjunct, I'd totally use it if I was in the strongman biz.

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0 · March 10, 2014 at 12:13 PM

I use Great Lakes and totally love it. You can even do subscribe and save. I don't use it for meal replacement, but I do supplement with it. I like to blend it with warm almond milk and a teaspoon of matcha green tea in my bullet before breakfast. I also will have some occasionally blended into warm almond milk before bed to help me sleep. I also get the green collagen container so that if I need to blend it when I'm away from home that stuff is easy to stir into anything.

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63 · March 09, 2014 at 6:47 AM

Great Lakes Gelatin, which is available in the hydrolyzed form so that it does not clump, is a great bioavailable source of protein that does not have any excitotoxins. We toss it into our smoothies in the morning and don't think too much more about it. It delivers many of the benefits of homemade bone broth without the work or the the reduced shelf life. It's a really good choice for folks who are avoiding dairy or have trouble with plant protein powder.

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17103 · March 09, 2014 at 10:16 PM

Putting a link back to your own website counts as spamming. We don't like spam here. Behave or your account will be deleted.

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5 · February 26, 2014 at 11:37 AM

Gelatin/collagen should be consumed but they aren't comparable to common protein powders and the general intake of protein. Protein alone isn't much meaningful but if it comes with other good nutrients such as phosphatidyl serine, phosphatidyl choline, vitamins and minerals, good fats that's something I agree with increasing in general and that mainly means good seafood and organ meats.

A reason to consume a protein powder may be to experiment with the high serotonine production factor of hemp protein.

Milk and egg protein powders aren't good at all, but if you had to consume one, that may rather be whey concentrates.

Unless you are in a serious competition about muscles...

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5 · February 26, 2014 at 11:48 AM

Why do you think milk is generally excluded in paleo ? Why do you think Loren Cordain suggested to limit egg to 6/week due to its whites and egg whites are excluded in autoimmune protocols ? All have reasons...

47cbd166d262925037bc6f9a9265eb20
5 · February 26, 2014 at 11:43 AM

Check this for example:

http://charm.cs.uiuc.edu/users/jyelon/lowcarb.med/topic9.html

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17103 · February 26, 2014 at 11:36 AM

Gelatin is great stuff, useful for building new connective tissues (along with Vitamin C), and it's useful for healing the gut, but it's not a complete protein source and shouldn't be used as a muscle builder. The title is misleading in the sense that when people think "protein powder" they generally think ergogenic. In that case you'd want meat.

You don't need to buy some expensive gelatin that's been "approved" through an advertorial such as the link in OP's question - make it yoursef from bones. Get a bunch of bones - especially from joints, a crockpot, a tablespoon of salt, and a tablespoon or two of distilled white vinegar. Boil the bones down for 24 hours or longer if they're from beef until the bones break apart. Once cooled, skim off any fats at the top. The end product should gelatinize if you had enough bones vs water.

Bone broth made this way is also a good source of glucosamine and many other similar joint repair substances that you don't get in commercial products.

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0 · February 26, 2014 at 12:42 AM

Gelatin (also known as collagen) is very good for you. Hydrolyzed is best. It has a different amino acid profile than whey but whey has 1 huge benefit as a protein source. You can get your whey as undenatured and that is not possible with collagen. Undenatured protein is very good for you and I would recommend it over collagen if it is the only protein supplement you take. However, collagen is very good for your bones, skin and connective tissue. The reason bone broth is good for you is because of the high collagen content.

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0 · February 24, 2014 at 5:20 PM

spam

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 12:29 AM

All gelatin that is commercially produced is loaded with excitotoxins. So i would never eat it. If you make your own with bone broth that is awesome.

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10768 · September 18, 2012 at 6:32 PM

@Kamal: You keep asking for sources... what I want are Citations. SCIENCE!!!

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8933 · February 20, 2012 at 10:42 AM

Man you all got me confused. Sometimes I think Quilt is just making things up and laughing at us behind his desk.

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 3:30 PM

Interesting fact: A breakfast made up beef containing 50 grams of protein can contain 10 grams of glutamate. In contrast 10 grams of gelatin contains only 0.5 grams of glutamate.

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 3:10 PM

Glutamate is the deprotonated form of glutamic acid such as in the case of a salt like MSG. However glutamic acid is also deprotonated under physiological pH. So any glutamic acid that you consume from any source is in the form of free glutamate in your body. Whether it is from steak, gelatin or MSG it all ends up as glutamate in your plasma.

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 3:04 PM

Both skin and bones are mainly composed of the same type 1 collagen and so should have a similar amino acid composition. Glutamic acid makes up about 10% of the amino acids in gelatin.

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4359 · September 30, 2011 at 2:54 PM

QUILT, this is just mechanistic speculation. Moreover, it doesn't even seem well-founded.

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8879 · September 30, 2011 at 2:16 PM

@Quilt: Do you have that study you did published anywhere? Even on your hard drive where you can email me a copy? carbsane at gmail dot com. I guess I need to stop throwing my whole chix carcasses and leftover skin (I don't eat chix skin except when crispy fried on wings) in when making my broths. I second Kamal's request for a reference on this. Thanks in advance.

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 12:19 PM

@Quilt - You seriously need to go and read a biochemistry textbook so that you understand the difference between *glutamic acid* and *glutamate*.

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2729 · September 30, 2011 at 10:09 AM

The only ingredient in Knox gelatin is "gelatin." are they putting MSG in it and not printing that on the label? I'm confused.

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19220 · September 30, 2011 at 9:31 AM

@Quilt - Glutamic acid does equal MSG under physiological conditions. It you put table salt in water is dissolves separating into sodium and chloride. The same happens with MSG in your body. MSG becomes free glutamic acid and sodium.

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78422 · September 30, 2011 at 8:12 AM

Its easier to make cheese from goat. No smell and more delicious.

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951 · September 30, 2011 at 5:28 AM

Oh no you did-unt.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 5:12 AM

Me too. I don't claim to really know anything about this. But if there is evidence that home-made bone broth contains significantly less free glutamate than powdered gelatin made from skin, I'm all ears (eyes). (which would also be good for gelatin making)

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951 · September 30, 2011 at 4:31 AM

Sometimes questions lead to more questions...and I'm more confused than ever.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 4:01 AM

"We have had several inquiries asking if Great Lakes Gelatin products not contain free glutamic acid. Great Lakes Gelatin sent both gelatin and the enzymatically hydrolyzed product to an independent laboratory. Northland Laboratories measured total free amino acid and free glutamic acid as % weight of solids..."

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:30 AM

In other words, if you had commercial gelatin tested, did you also test bone broth? And when you tested commercial gelatin, what kind did you test?

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:28 AM

Why does the glutamic acid in skin gelatin lead to more glutamate in comparison to connective tissue gelatin's glutamic acid?

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:23 AM

Glutamic acid doesnt equal MSG. Glutamic acid is an amino acid found in abundance in both plant and animal protein. In humans it is a non-essential amino acid, i.e., the body is capable of producing its own glutamic acid, and is not dependent upon getting glutamic acid from ingested food. Glutamate is glutamic acid to which a mineral ion has been attached. (Researchers call this mineral ion a “salt”.) If the mineral ion is sodium, the glutamic acid becomes sodium glutamate. If the mineral ion is potassium, the glutamic acid becomes potassium glutamate.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:19 AM

all these vaccines also have MSG in them.Note: Gelatin and ingredients that use the word Hydrolyzed contain Glutamate. MMR - Measles-Mumps-Rubella, Merck & Co., Inc.: *measles, mumps, rubella live virus, neomycin sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin, chick embryonic fluid, and human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue. M-R-Vax - Measles-Rubella, Merck & Co., Inc.: *measles, rubella live virus, neomycin, sorbitol, hydrolyzed gelatin, chick embryonic fluid, and human diploid cells from aborted fetal tissue. Attenuvax – Measles, Merck & Co., Inc.: *measles live virus,neomycin,sorbitol, hydrolyzed

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:19 AM

I just looked it up. Ground beef has more glutamic acid than one serving of Great Lakes gelatin. Explain more, please!

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:17 AM

But isn't there more glutamate in a serving of meat than in a tablespoon of supplemental (pure) gelatin? I could look it up, but you might know off hand.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:17 AM

Yes Kamal skin does......muscle meat has glutamine......big difference. But for more knowledge almost all sausage in the USA has MSG added too. Its the one meat a paleo has to worry about.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:15 AM

Kamal......we went further. We used the commerical gelatin and tested it via our lab.....and it had glutamate in it in vitro and then people with migraines and tumors ate it and had a LP done with fluid extracted at 15 minute intervals. When people ate it.....in the migraine clinic we can find it in their CSF within 15 to minutes via an LP. Their headaches also were above what one would expect from a normal LP too. Most people with Migraine have to avoid all commercial gelatins.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:13 AM

P.S. Why is glutamine / glutamic acid in muscle meat not an equal concern then? Eating a steak would contain much more of that than a tablespoon of supplemental gelatin.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:12 AM

Skin has more glutamine and/or glutamic acid? Interesting. Source?

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:12 AM

That link also doesn't address the question. Any gelatin (for example, gelatinous bone broth) will have glutamine / glutamic acid.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:12 AM

Kamal it does not contain skin usually which has the moieties we worry about. If you have the butcher do it right and just leave cartilage and ligaments on the bone this is the ideal way to make it and it has no chance of causing us trouble.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:11 AM

Your second link is only referring to gelatin that has MSG added under hidden names. Have you ever bought plain, powdered gelatin? It is simply powdered broth.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:10 AM

http://www.healthtruthrevealed.com/articles/093141101/article

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 2:09 AM

Please explain how home made bone broth (producing gelatin) is different than gelatin made from pig skin and powdered in amino acid profile. Both have glutamine. Most (paleo) people get the regular, unhydrolyzed gelatin. Is the website "slick" simply because it is a web page from a company? Because everything they say looks true -- there is no added MSG, and this doesn't seem any different than gelatin made at home.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:08 AM

From a pharmacist....http://www.thecompounder.com/answers-a-ideas/things-to-avoid/msg-in-food/msg-a-gelatin

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:07 AM

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_259-260/ai_n10299306/pg_2/

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:05 AM

reference Jay......CSF studies are about the best I can give you. We do lumbar taps and it shows up. I dont think there is a better experimental test. Id love to share the people's names but I can tell you several of them have posted comments in my MSG series.....go over there and ask them. I cant say a word because of HIPPA but they can tell you if they choose too.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:03 AM

Glutamic Acid Hydrolyzed protein Autolyzed protein Textured protein Yeast extract Autolyzed yeast extract Protein isolate Soy sauce Modified food starch Modified corn starch Calcium caseinate Sodlium caseinate Broth Maltodextrin Seasonings Natural flavor Monopotassium glutamate Glutamate Gelatin Hydrolyzed vegetable protein Hydrolyzed plant protein Textured protein Yeast food Yeast nutrient Torula yeast These are all the nicknames of MSG. Check you labels.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 2:00 AM

Jeff go to the farmer or WF and get grass fed bones and cook them in wine with water for about 20 hrs in a crock pot. You will get great gelatin that is safe and has huge amounts of great things that wont hurt you and will help your gut and your joints. I recommend this to all my spine patients and even teach them how to shop and make it.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 1:57 AM

Hydrolyzed glutamine is one of the faster molecules that crosses the BBB too.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 1:57 AM

the glutamine moiety becomes an excitotoxin (glutamate) that crosses the BBB and concentrates at site with injury or a leaky BBB. We can measure it in the CSF within 15 minutes of ingestion.

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25467 · September 30, 2011 at 1:55 AM

Glad you all bought the slick marketing on the web page. Maybe you Gentleman you all should pose the question to Matt or Robb and see what happens to this moiety when a human ingests it from a biochemistry standpoint in our guts. In our brain tumor protocols all patients are told to avoid any commercial gelatin. I am not anti gelatin......just anti commercial gelatin.

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4359 · September 30, 2011 at 1:50 AM

Reference for your statement?

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15226 · September 30, 2011 at 1:34 AM

cool, that's what I use too.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 1:21 AM

Long time no see Big Ben!

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15976 · September 30, 2011 at 1:19 AM

I use the great lakes, too.

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24523 · September 30, 2011 at 1:15 AM

The gelatin that seems to be most widely used by paleohackers (including myself) is Great Lakes gelatin, available on Amazon. It contains no excitotoxins, as it is simply powdered collagen (regular or hydrolyzed)... http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/consumer/noMSG.php

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15226 · September 30, 2011 at 1:15 AM

Doc what kind of excitotoxins are in there? I've recently started using it.

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951 · September 30, 2011 at 12:49 AM

Well that's a major dissapointment. If I were to make my own, would it be in a semi-solid form that would need to be eaten, or is there something else I could do with it?

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