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The Ultimate PaleoHacks Supplement Thread

by 10194 · December 20, 2011 7:44 PM

Lots of questions around supplements on PaleoHacks. Why, How, Which etc etc

Let's wrap this in one amazing thread.

Here is how I would like for you to answer:

1) Common name of supplement

1a) Which form or format (if it has multiple) is recommended & why, (This is often very confusing)

1b) Typical cost

2) Why anyone would want to take it?

2a) Dosage amount.

3) Interactions with other supplements?

4) Link to site that sells it

5) Side effects

6) Notes

Have at it.

TOC: Coenzime Q10 Fish Oil Magnesium Piracetam Vitamin C Vitamin K2

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85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
14
77338 · September 18, 2011 9:03 PM

Name:

Vitamin C, Ascorbic acid

Form

Ascorbic Acid Powder, Magnesium-Ascorbate, Sodium Ascorbate, Calcium Ascorbate, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Rose Hip Powder, Acerola Powder, Camu Camu Powder

  • For detailed analysis of biovalibality of different forms, visit this link.
  • Do not use Calcium Ascorbate as calcium is not needed for supplementation.

Delivery

Half life: 30 minutes

TTP: 60 - 120 minutes

  • As tablet, not very effective due to small dose.
  • As effervescent tablet usually with a bioflavonid complex, mostly useless, pricey and usually contains additives like aspartam, sorbitol etc, which makes it dangerous.
  • As powder, great. Must be dissolved in water just before usage as it is highly unstable in water. Can last for 2 hours on open and up to 1 day in fridge. Heat and light unstable.
  • With minerals. Good practical value is with carbonated water, particularly those used to boost Mg or Iodine uptake. If you can't tolerate its acidic taste, buy sodium bicarbonate and mix 1/2 the dose of ascorbate you used.
  • As film tablet (extended release). Better then regular tablets.
  • As liposome using LET (Liposome Encapsulated Technology) which is latest drug delivery system providing 100% absorption and no side effects.

Price

  • $20-$30/kg normal, ~$0.5-$1/g LET

Dosage

LD-50: 12 g/kg

In 'standard' medicine around 100mg is thought to be enough to prevent vitamin C deficiency for majority of people (RDA ~ 100mg, UL=2g). In orthomolecular medicine, it is thought that vitamin C is needed in much higher amounts because of genetic defect (mutated GULO gene) which is based on evolutionary research, the fact that almost all animals produce very high amounts of ascorbic acid and long clinical practice (the distinction is similar to what we have with vitamin D).

  • Standard medicine: 100mg, more with specific conditions, usually not more then 500mg or 1g.
  • Orthomolecular medicine:
    • Dosage is highly individual and depends on cellular stress level. Typical well tolerated dose is between 4-15g for most people. If you can take more, it generally means that your body is sick. When it returns to normal, your tolerance will reduce. This is called bowel tolerance.
    • Must be used several times a day for benefit. Single dosage no matter size is not very useful. 2x4g, 4x2g, 3x4g or more. If LET, 1-3 g per day.
  • Small doses (150-200mg) absorb completely, with upping the dose it is absorbed less and less [not true for LET], however, plasma concentration levels always rise. The frequency of administration is related to the short half time, not to the absorption rate. The more you take, the more gets excreted in the urine. In times of stress, all animals produce more ascorbate and secrete it more in the urine and this fact tells much about its protective role since animals loose lot of energy (glucose) to produce ascorbate. Anyway, as I always say, its better to piss it off, then to be without it.
  • For complete Vitamin C Pharmacokinetics, this paper is worth reading. One of the things it says is that you can not achieve comparable level of plasma vitamin C content with fruit input. See a nice graph here.

Reason:

  • Extremely fragile and potently used inside the body.
    • UV, Oxygen and thermally unstable so cooking and storage destroys most of it.
    • Genetically modified fruit have higher levels of sugar which block C uptake and reduces C content. Vegetables and fruit is harvested before ripening which means vitamin C content is reduced. Longer storage, travel, environmental toxin exposure all diminish its level.
    • Most medications induce deficiency, especially NSAIDs (cox1ibs particularly).
    • Any infection induce deficiency.
  • Master antioxidant. Parallels glutathion.
  • Because you age, and aging reduce Vitamin C absorption and body utilization.
  • Extremely effective anti-viral agent. Very large oral doses are used (30-100g). 2-4g every hour until symptoms disappear. Must be used on first signs on disease or its effects will be far lower.
  • Effective for correct adrenal function and as anti-stress agent. Adrenals are storage for C.
  • Strong bactericidal action. Very effective for H.Pylori infections.
  • Extremely effective toxin remover, particularly Hg and alcohol (complete sobering up after 2 hours using 4g every 30 minutes). If you happen to smoke, every cig destroys 25mg of C.
  • Extremely effective for wound healing. Wounds can't heal without C as it is used to make collagen which makes it imperative with surgery and deliveries.
  • Extremely effective prevention of CVD (cardiovascular disease). Epithelium depends on good collagen support to prevent hemorrhage.
  • Very effective for gingivitis and urinary infections.
  • Important for diabetes and high sugar load as glucose competes with most common Vitamin C transporters (GLUT-X).
  • Neuroprotective effect. Very good for depression and Parkinson disease as it is used in synthesis of dopamine.
  • Effective as anti-histaminic and in general immunity. White cells without Vitamin C are like soldiers without bullets.
  • You should use it every day, because all animals make gram levels in un-stressed state.
  • You may be genetically determined for deficiency.
  • For correct synthesis of bile, hence indirectly promotes absorption of A,D,E & K in some individuals.
  • Very important in paleo/low carb diet because animals store it in organs which are not typically eaten: eyes, adrenals, brain, thymus gland and because animal food is mostly cooked. On certain types of low carb/paleo fruit is discouraged or completely avoided.
  • Very important in pregnancy and while nursing.

Interactions

  • Promotes iron absorption
  • Megadoses may promote Mg deficiency (>= 20g / day) because C makes urine oxalate levels higher and Mg binds to oxalates with high affinity
  • Slightly reduces copper absorption.
  • Must be used with NSAIDs (aspirin and friends) which induce stomach bleeding and promote urinary excretion.
  • Kiwi gel, limun, green/white tea boost absorption of C.
  • You need to be well hydrated. This is important since vitamin C promotes toxin clearance and since chronic dehydration is one of the most common symptoms of kidney stones (with higher oxalate levels in urine, it doesn't hurt to have extra protection, although association between vitamin C and kidney stones is just theoretical and is not observed in-vivo).
  • See more here.

Where to buy

Side effects

  • High doses of vitamin C are not recommended in patients with kidney failure.
  • Ascorbate Acid in water may promote enamel distruction. Always wash your mouth with water after usage or use mineral versions.
  • Flatulence, will pass after first month or so.
  • Frequent urination similar to that of diabetes. Will pass after first month or so.
  • Diarrhea on overdose (Vitamin C Flush). Reduce dosage to 75% of that taken since your body doesn't absorb it any more.
  • Contrary to popular opinion C megadoses do not induce kidney stones or we would see dead animals around. See Pauling's explanation. Make sure you take adequate dose of Mg anyway.
  • Small number of people are intolerant to very small doses (1-2g). Those should use LET because it is completely absorbed in small bowel and doesn't reach the colon.
  • Sudden stop of taking megadoses may produce "rebound scurvy". Always reduce the dosage gradually in period of 2-3 days. If not, you are more open to infections during that time [if you are pregnant, I suggest strongly following this rule].

Notes

  • There is no Vitamin C Complex. It is used to boost the price of the product.
  • Even though there are thousands of research papers released each year, vitamin C is still not understood today after more then century of research. See this paper.
  • Read:
    • Overview of C megadose.
    • Viral disease and vitamin C.
    • Ascorbate - The Science Of Vitamin C, Steve Hickey, Hilary Roberts, 2004
    • Curing the Incurable: Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins, Thomas E. Levy, 2009
    • How to Live Longer and Feel Better, Linus Pauling, 1987
    • A Unified Theory of Human Cardiovascular Disease, Matthias Rath, Linus Pauling, 1992
    • The Healing Factor, Irwan Stone, 1972
    • Vitamin C - Its Chemistry and Biochemistry, Michael Davis et al, 1991
    • Why Animals Dont Get Heart Attacks But People Do, Matthias Rath, 2003
    • Oxidation, energy transfer, and vitamins, Szent-Gyorgyi, 1937

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77338 · September 18, 2011 9:12 PM

Name

Coenzyme Q10

Form

  • Ubiquinone, regularly found in supplements, very bad absorption, < 10%.
  • Ubiquinol, the reduced form of CoQ10. Claims are it is better absorbed.
  • Idebenone, synthetic analog which is the best form.

Delivery

  • Tablet
  • As powder.
  • Via lipid containing capsule, most often in plant oil or MCT
  • As liposome.
  • Via number of proprietary technologies - SelfCaps, proliposome etc..

Price

  • ~$5 - $15 regular price for low quality forms
  • $15 - $20 for better forms
  • $50 - $100 for best forms

Dosage

Half-life: 34 hours

TTP: 5-6 hours

  • Age < 30, 0mg
  • 30 < Age < 40, 30 mg
  • Age > 40, 50 - 300mg, depending on many factors like sport activities, disease states etc.
  • Doses up to 1.2g are considered safe.

Reason

  • Because endogenous production and metabolism is reduced with aging and food intake can be 5mg at best.
  • Because endogenous biosynthesis is 17 step process and involves number of resources. Probability of deficiency is thus extremely high.
  • The UV light and temperature together have a great effect on coenzyme Q10 stability.
  • Mitochondrial support. Hence, essential for organs with biggest mitochondrial count, like heart. Improves hypertension and can prevent congestive heart failure. Brings energy levels up. Essential for stressed periods, intensive works, sleepless nights.
  • Incrases HDL, lowers hbA1C
  • Used for neurodegenerative and neuromuscular disorders.
  • Improves oral health - periodontal disease, gingivitis etc.
  • Antioxidant.

Interactions

  • Statin users are depleted of CoQ10 because it is cholesterol derivative. Similar for beta blockers. Must use!.

Side effects

LD-50: 4g/kg

  • None. Body creates it and its found naturally in food in small amounts.

Where to buy

  • Jarrow Formulas Q-Absorb - best price, very good quolity, price/quality ratio highest. Uses japanese Q10.
  • Solgar Nutri Nano Q10 - Lipospheric, extremely expensive, just for rich bastards.
  • Japan powder. Japan is the leading expert in CoQ10 and antyhing not comming from them is questionable.
  • Super Ubiquinol CoQ10 with Enhanced Mitochondrial Support by LEF. WIth some extra staff (shilajit, also known as mumijo)
  • Regular every day formulations and small doses are useless and waste of money.

Notes

6120c989fd5b69f42a0834b69b87955b
6
24412 · September 21, 2011 at 10:37 AM

1) Name: Magnesium

1a) Which form or format:

Magnesium Citrate, Magnesium Oil (Magnesium Chloride Brine), Magnesium Flakes (Magnesium Chloride), Magnesium Taurate, Angstrom Magnesium, Magnesium Malate, Epsom Salts

1b) Typical cost: $3-40

2) Why anyone would want to take it?

Our soils once had abundant magnesium that was picked up by whatever we grew in it. Due to commercial farming, and limited soil inputs, the levels started declining dramatically in the early/mid 1900's. Proposals for supplementation were actually made to the US congress in the 1930's because of the "expanding waistlines" of the US population related to magnesium deficiency (Ha! We thought it was bad then!). The vast majority of us are deficient in magnesium unless it is intentionally supplemented.

Magnesium is necessary for 325 enzymatic functions in the body, aids in insulin sensitivity, is required to keep our bones strong and flexible, keeps our arteries and soft tissue free from calcification by blocking excess calcium from gathering where it ought not be, reduces our chance of muscle spasms (including heart attack), treats restless leg syndrome, treats migraines, helpful for fibromyalgia, improves and prevents mitral valve prolapse, prevents and treats pre-eclampsia, for 80% of people works as a sleep aid when taken at bedtime (the remaining 20% can experience a paradoxical stimulating effect), important for mental health and well being (helps with anxiety and depression), helpful in treating asthma, and reduces our chance of oxalate kidney stones.

2a) Dosage amount.

The RDA is 300-400mg., but what is needed for optimal health is closer to double that for adults.

3) Interactions

  • May be problematic with caesarean section.

  • May interfere with absorption of antibiotics, ACE inhibitors H2 blockers. Take 2 hours after.

  • May make oragl hypoglycemics more effective when used, increasing the risk of hypoglycemia

4) Link to site that sells it

http://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Oil-64-1-9-Liquid/dp/B002I5LO2S

http://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Research-Cal-Mag-Citrate-Effervescent/dp/B005HXPE0Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1316599638&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Angstrom-Minerals-Magnesium-8-ozs/dp/B004PJIP2W/ref=sr_1_1?s=beauty&ie=UTF8&qid=1316599763&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Epsom-Salt-16-Oz/dp/B0011WFOSO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316600871&sr=8-1

5) Side effects

Taken orally many forms of magnesium can have a laxative effect, there is no point in taking more than bowel tolerance allows for, or you will be flushing your supplement down the toilet, literally. People with impaired kidney function should always work closely with a doctor if they choose to supplement with magnesium. Can also have an antacid effect, and reduce stomach acid to the point of disturbing digestion, should be taken away from meals. Magnesium Citrate has been associated with vivid and sometimes disturbing dreams. Magnesium Oil when applied to the skin can itch, but the itching is harmless (under the arms and feet seem to be the least itchy places). Several forms of chelated magnesium like magnesium aspartate can cause a worsening of depressive symptoms.

6) Notes

For best results make sure calcium to magnesium ratio is 2:1 to 1:1 in the diet.

Most oral forms of magnesium require good digestive juices to be broken down, Angstrom Magnesium is absorbed straight into the blood stream sublingually, and is recommended for people with weak digestion.

Epsom Salts and Magnesium Chloride Flakes both are readily absorbed into the body when added to bathwater, also good for a post workout soak to prevent sore muscles.

7) Non-Supplement Sources

Leafy greens, halibut, pumpkin seeds, and seaweed are particularly rich in magnesium. Mineral water and "hard water" are also good sources. Also absorbed through the skin when swimming in the ocean.

For more Paleo hacks: http://paleohacks.com/questions/65801/the-ultimate-supplemental-paleohacks-thread#ixzz1YZumbDEY

E34fbfa1bca9ae970c9c7313bf9de9f8
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1449 · September 21, 2011 5:22 PM

Name: Vitamin K2

Form: MK-4/MK-7

Cost: 16$/90 doses (LEF Brand)

Reason prevent heart disease, ensure healthy skin, dental health, form strong bones, promote brain function, support growth and development and helping to prevent cancer

Dosage amount:

Low: 100MCG MK-7

Moderate: 100 mcg MK-4, 100 mcg MK-7

High: 5mg MK-4

(source:perfect health diet supplement recommendations)

Interactions Synergistic with Vitamin A and Vitamin D.

Where to Buy LEF K2 Complex Thorne K2 liquid

Side effects: If you are taking Warfarin (Coumadin), vitamin K can interfere with its anti-clotting activity

Notes Highest food sources: Natto, Egg Yolks, Goose Liver, Fermented Cheeses

Additional links:

http://chriskresser.com/vitamin-k2-the-missing-nutrient

http://www.westonaprice.org/fat-soluble-activators/x-factor-is-vitamin-k2

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?cat=36

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/11/can-vitamin-k2-reverse-arterial.html

Vitamin K2 contents of Meat, Dairy, and Fast Food in the US Diet http://www.ars.usda.gov/sp2userfiles/place/12354500/articles/jafc54_463-467.pdf

C796170f6af6f9b9afbf31f4550d1d84
4
345 · December 20, 2011 7:44 PM

Okay- so you may delete this post because I am going to go off the prescribed format a bit...but here goes.

My favorite supplements and why. First let me say that the efficacy of these supplements are not "in my opinion" they are all very well tested, yet sadly quiet unknown to the general public. I am not including all of their properties and how much to take because I really recommend investigating such things for oneself. :) <3

  1. Turmeric- A spice largely found in Indian Food and curry. It has almost too many positive applications to mention. It has antiviral, antibacterial and anti fungal properties. (Also tastes great) (Considered as a possible Tx for some cancers)

  2. Cinnamon- Great for helping to keep blood sugars level when you are adding back in carbs. An absolute must for Type 2 diabetics

  3. CoQ10- as mentioned above

  4. B-vitamins (Stress complex) helps the body burn food for fuel more efficiently.

  5. Milk Thistle- An amazing supplement which should be explored by anyone having any liver issues AT ALL. It has an amazing superpower to heal liver disease.

These are some of my favorites to keep around. Please do some research on each of them. I often resort to Turmeric instead of antibiotics whenever I have a need.

Ed71ab1c75c6a9bd217a599db0a3e117
3
25197 · September 26, 2011 4:04 PM

Here you go maj......http://jackkruse.com/what-are-the-top-ten-paleo-supplements/

Nice question

Plus one.

2f54dbe892ec89b12d1db686568e885a
3
929 · September 20, 2011 9:00 AM

And what about D3 for those of us in the Northern hemisphere?

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2
15964 · September 21, 2011 2:22 AM

1) Common name of supplement Phosphatidylserine

1a) Which form or format (if it has multiple) is recommended & why, (This is often very confusing)

mportant member of the phospholipid nutrient family

1b) Typical cost

$19.2 for 100 90 mg caps

2) Why anyone would want to take it?

The clear choice for healthy mental function A vital component of neurotransmitters that delivers superior mental nourishment Keeps brain working at top speed by helping to maintain cell integrity

ALSO GREAT FOR LOWERING CORTISOL

2a) Dosage amount.

@300 mg a day

3) Interactions with other supplements?

none known

4) Link to site that sells it

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SWU289/ItemDetail

5) Side effects

6) Notes

For mental nourishment and brain health, try Swanson Phosphatidylserine! An important member of the phospholipid nutrient family, phosphatidylserine is essential to the structure and function of cellular membranes. PS is found in particularly high amounts in cell membranes and brain tissue, which is why researchers have investigated its benefits for mental nourishment.

85026a0abe715229761956fbbee1cba0
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77338 · September 19, 2011 9:59 AM

Name

Piracetam

Form

There is only this form. There are other substances in racetam family, however.

Dosage

Half Life: 4-5 hours

TTP: 30-40 minutes

  • 400mg - 6g.
  • Some people benefit the most from microdoses - ~100mg, some used very large doses (~10-20g, doses typically used for epileptic myoclonus with impressive effects.)
  • Should be started with attack dose - much larger doses in first few days.

Reasons

  • Promotes oxygenation of brain and prevents hyphoxia induced damage. Generally used with stroke patients to promote healing and as prevention as it significantly promotes survival in hyphoxic conditions.
  • Improves cholinergic system efficiency. Muscarinic receptors are found in both the central nervous system and the peripheral nervous system, in heart, lungs, upper GI tract and sweat glands. Theoretically, Piracetam may improve digestion. Acetylcholine causes the muscle of the digestive organs to squeeze with more force and increase the "push" of food and juice through the digestive tract.
  • Enhances cognition and memory.
  • Increase communication between the two hemispheres of the brain, and increases activity of the corpus callosum.
  • Improves mitochondrial function in brain.
  • Enhancement of brain metabolism.
  • Enhances oxidative glycolysis.
  • Positive effects of the cerebral microcirculation and increase in cerebral blood flow
  • Slightly lowers blood pressure.
  • Improves sleep and vividness of dreams.
  • Improves psychological functions such as improved motivation, less sleep disturbance, better attention and less depression.
  • Anti-aging
  • See more here or here.

Delivery

  • Capsules, usually 400 or 800 mg.
  • Powder

Price

  • $3-$20 for 60 capsules of 400-800 mg depending on manufacturer.
  • $10-$30 for 100g powder

Side effects

LD-50: Not determined

  • All reported at a frequency of less than 10%
  • May induce choline deficiency. Eat eggs or supplement lechitin (soy, shiitake) which you should do anyway.
  • Constipation.
  • Can induce insomnia [constructive one]. You may not want to use it before sleep. Many people find it helps them wake up.
  • Because of piracetam’s extensive use as a cognitive enhancer, there is considerable experience of its clinical tolerability, at least at low dosages. The drug seems well tolerated, and even in placebo- controlled trials, adverse effects were often reported at a greater frequency with placebo than with the active drug [From: The Treatment of Epilepsy - Piracetam]
  • The drug readily crosses the placenta and into breast milk, it should probably be avoided in pregnancy and lactation

Where to buy

Interactions

  • Synergy with choline, hydergine, ginko.

Notes

  • Never lose your car keys again.
  • Effects should be seen after 1 month or more of usage.
  • Some people are unresponsive. Try dose tweaking.
  • Non-toxic.

0a2dd50f2d3951bf3fb83fc4638c9512
1
1927 · September 18, 2011 8:04 PM

1) Common name of supplement: Fish Oil

1a) Which form or format (if it has multiple) is recommended & why? Liquid. My understanding is that it has better bio-availability in this form.

1b) Typical cost: $38 for 10 oz bottle (This is what I get it for from my gym; website puts it at $49.99.), which will last a month, if you take 2 tsp/day.

2) Why anyone would want to take it? Great for recovery and keeping those Omega-3:6 ratios healthy. Plus it tastes great, and my trainer swears by it.

2a) Dosage amount: 2 tsp/day (equates to ~5400 mg of EPA and DHA)

3) Interactions with other supplements? None that I'm aware of.

4) Buy: SO3 Super Omega-3 Oil

Great question! -- hope it turns into a great resource!

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