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Animal protein (containing Lucine) accelerates aging? (read: is veganism a good idea if you want to live longer?)

by (598)
Updated 6 minutes ago
Created April 09, 2014 at 8:10 PM

I found this pro-vegan type video pretty interesting.

Anyone familiar with my activity on this forum knows I'm a little obsessive about life extension and, while I respect those looking to shed a few pounds for better health, I couldn't care less about how fattening a given practice is...

Anyway, I've been limiting my protein intake (mainly by keeping meat down to a small serving or two per day) in the hopes of achieving greater longevity. Perhaps, though, Lucine in particular (found mainly in animal meats) is all I need to avoid?

Thoughts?

Is veganism really the life-extending miracle diet its proponents would have you believe? A well-executed vegan/quasi vegan diet can easily be maintained for a lifetime. I know a couple older vegans who have been doing it for 30+ years and are in great health... Of course they eat a lot more nuts and legumes than I'd like.

No worries mate. I'm not about to jump on the vegan bandwagon. I just want to get some input on this...

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690 · April 16, 2014 at 4:07 AM

Bingo! You can ingest just about anything that isn't acutely toxic and live to your 40's. Entertainment industry provides the data. Chronic toxicity is another story but appears to have little effect on reproductive success.

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1197 · April 16, 2014 at 2:59 AM

Good for you! I'm happy that you are balancing your studying and hacking with living and enjoying. Best of luck with your endeavors, and maybe we'll chat more on this forum down the line...

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41452 · April 15, 2014 at 11:02 PM

Except humans reproduce in their teens and 20s… long before any selective pressures for longevity take hold.

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1197 · April 15, 2014 at 10:17 PM

Your thoughts are appreciated- my point is that time spent "hacking" has to be measured against benefits. I like that you are emphasizing HEALTHY elderly years- because THAT is the key. Because of modern medicine, great strides have been made in longevity- but unfortunately, they are sick years, usually feeble and painful years, that have been gained. THAT has been my point. If those years can be healthy (of body and mind) then YES- as long as all of my friends haven't died and technology and culture hasn't passed me by, which is sadly the case with the very elderly I interact with now.

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598 · April 15, 2014 at 10:14 PM

I do appreciate your civility, @ivymcivy. We mix in with somewhat more eh... resolute and opinionated folks and the dialogue can suffer. I respect and admire your point of view, but do not share it. My youth is well-spent preparing for my future however I can, but I'll do my best not to forget the importance of each passing day. I feel like my "youth" is just about spent, btw. I'm 29 FWIW and try hard to channel the mindset I held 10 years ago.

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598 · April 15, 2014 at 10:05 PM

I may be a late bloomer @BobK and perhaps that means I'll live a little longer, who knows. I have, however, been called "wise for my years" more times than I can count, so your opinion is just 1 point for the other side. @ivymcivy I made one inappropriate comment out of frustration and I regret that, but I still can't see why one shouldn't try to "hack their way out of aging and dying"... Aging is a disease that affects us all. If your grandmother could be healthy and jovial at her age, looking forward to another 20-30 years, I'm sure that would make you happy.

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598 · April 15, 2014 at 9:51 PM

@ivymcivy I apologize, that was inappropriate and hurtful. I'm sure you love your grandmother but I have heard people express their frustration with the responsibility of caring for our elders. To me, the elders are such an important part of our society I find this abhorrent. I regret jabbing at you in that way. Still, my argument is that, had your grandmother practiced certain longevity techniques we're only learning about today, perhaps she would be in much better health and have much less suffering than she endures. It is unfortunate this info wasn't available to her.

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1197 · April 14, 2014 at 7:16 PM

I hope you don't perceive my conversation as an attack - I like exploring the reasons people have for the choices they make, and I enjoy it when dialog can open up and people with differences of opinion learn. Actually, it is one of the only ways I learn. I very much appreciate that some people can be healthy and vital at an advanced age, but I also appreciate that life is long and complicated, and the quest for longevity can often have one missing the forest for the trees. I hope your energies are equally well spent on enjoying your youth!

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598 · April 14, 2014 at 3:42 PM

I enjoy conversing with those who hold a different perspective as long as they keep things civil. I tend to outright dismiss folks who attack my views or goals just because they're different. Hostility begat hostility.

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598 · April 14, 2014 at 3:40 PM

Thanks for chiming in but did you read @BobK's post? It looks pretty prescriptive. He says "Stop obsessing over life span or health span..." and points out various perceived flaws in my perspective. It verges on being an attack to my point of view. Why shouldn't I respond with a touch of hostility?

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598 · April 14, 2014 at 3:36 PM

TG can get a little riled up about these things but I'm with him on the core concept. The argument that keeps popping up that makes zero sense to me is people pointing out that living in an old body isn't as nice as living in a young one. But, if you take care of it, your 80yo body can feel like someone else's 50yo body. Or, you could feel 80 when you're 65 if you just don't care.

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598 · April 14, 2014 at 3:28 PM

Did you read? She was FORCED into early retirement. Her kids moved out against her will. She thrived on that sense of purpose. She was one of the most nurturing, hard-working people I've ever known. Her life revolved around feeding and sheltering loved ones and "bringing home the bread." When all that was suddenly pulled out from under her, she got depressed and gave into the health problems she was fighting off with sheer will. She literally got sick and died just as her sense of purpose fell away. It's a common story.

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1197 · April 12, 2014 at 12:54 AM

Btw, did you ever try that sauce recipe for spaghetti squash? I'm making some right now!

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1197 · April 12, 2014 at 12:50 AM

Hahahaha! Where am I telling anyone to do anything or imposing my "pathetic" view on anyone? I am having a conversation here! Where have I said everyone needs to live to the same age? Surely you aren't serious with those weird inferences. I don't hate getting old at all, I REALLY like it - I was just pointing out that life extension gives years at the end of life, when living is the hardest and health naturally deteriorates. YOU are the one that keeps bringing up suicide and all that. I don't know where you went to school or who taught you dialectics, but your debating skills are way jv.

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1197 · April 12, 2014 at 12:46 AM

I have to disagree - suicide and self-euthanizing are not easy choices. Ask anyone who lived through the AIDS epidemic, with all of their friends dying awful deaths. Even when the alternative is either a life of chronic pain or a painful, humiliating death, the choice to die is absolutely not easy. We are very attached to life, it is our nature. Imagine being that desperate and having no good choices. Exercise a moment of empathy, imagine what that would be like. Not easy at all. BTW - suicide is a very different issue than the nuances of longevity. You do realize that, right?

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455 · April 11, 2014 at 7:49 PM

If someone wants to self-euthanize, fine for them it's their life and people should have control over their life (or death). All I'm saying is if you want to die at a certain age, that doesn't mean everyone else should also die at that age too. Some of us would rather live. You're imposing your pathetic view of aging on everyone else. If you hate getting old so much, then kill yourself once you get old, since you think aging is so bad. Unless you're bluffing that is, which I'm sure you are since you're probably not going to kill yourself.

Stop judging those of us who would rather live.

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787 · April 11, 2014 at 4:00 PM

You said it, just reading these comments took 5 years off my life

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690 · April 11, 2014 at 3:47 PM

It's a bit more nuanced than

"Suicide is very easy, if someone truly wanted to be dead, they'd have found a way. Dying is easy."

It's a multi-variable system with no easy answers.

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1197 · April 11, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Good luck to you though - I hope you do live to be really really old in that wheelchair sharing all that wisdom with all the people who are going to be gathered around you since you have been such a fantastic contributing member of society who never retired. Since you are such a delightful conversationalist, I'm sure people will be lining up to have you berate them when they disagree with you. Because we all learn SO MUCH from talking to people like that. So thanks for the opportunity to learn from you.

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690 · April 11, 2014 at 3:37 PM

@TheGastronomer ... my read of @ivymcivy's posts & the intention of all my posts, life span extension can have a downside. I don't see either of us advocating suicide.

Also, it's not "people complaining about how they would rather be dead."

It's maybe "maybe living a very long time is not better than the alternative".

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1197 · April 11, 2014 at 3:37 PM

Dialog isn't propaganda, and nobody is telling you that you can't do anything, we are simply adding to the conversation in a way that gives another point of view. Do you know how to talk to people who have different opinions than you, or are you one of those people who can't really talk to people unless they agree with you? Hmmm... yeah, share your wisdom. From your comment, you are one of those people who tell people to "Go live in Russia if you don't like America" when they question the broken healthcare system. No use wasting my thoughts here.

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1197 · April 11, 2014 at 3:30 PM

People actually DO self-euthanize when very ill- there are endless examples. How strange that you seem incapable of understanding that. Yes, people chose death sometimes, so you saying that they never do is just, well- dumb. The fact that you you think you can "call the bluff" of people on here who are sharing a different point of view is so childish! How can you call my bluff? You don't even know if I am one person, or if this account is shared by 3 different people. I hope you live long and learn about how varied life is - but you have to interact with real live people to do that.

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690 · April 11, 2014 at 3:17 PM

Perhaps this is the correct correlation...

Healthy people keep working & live longer. Unhealthy people retire due to health & then die sooner. Maybe it's the health problems that cause the 'earlier' retirement & eather death.

Maybe something like this....Retirement & death are the outcomes. Retirement is not the trigger.

Frogs with no legs are deaf?

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598 · April 11, 2014 at 3:12 PM

Interesting stuff but who ever said anything about eliminating all leucine from the diet? That would be nearly impossible. However, some plant sources have a lower proportion of leucine than most animal sources, so you could effectively keep the ratio of total leucine to total protein intake a little lower and potentially live longer with little to no side effects.

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598 · April 11, 2014 at 3:07 PM

Of course it's not. It's a good indicator though. Many die within a few years of retirement and some of the healthiest old people out there work a day job into their 90's. It's hard to argue that this isn't at least interesting, if not a compelling correlation.

+ anecdotal evidence abound. For instance, my MIL was forced into early retirement just before her 50th birthday. She had many long-standing health issues but maybe the sense of purpose was keeping her alive. Kids moved out, lost her job, couple months later had kidney failure and died. Proof? No. Interesting example though.

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455 · April 11, 2014 at 3:06 PM

I'm tired of people complaining about how they would rather be dead....that is bullshit. Suicide is very easy, if someone truly wanted to be dead, they'd have found a way. Dying is easy.

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455 · April 11, 2014 at 3:01 PM

@Methodician I know exactly what you mean, people like to sound like they are "mature" and "wise" by saying stupid shit like getting old or sick is worse than dying, but yet they never seem to kill themselves even when they are sick as shit. It's a classic case of "do as I say, not as I do". If you're alive, you can end your life whenever you want, but if you're dead you don't have much of a choice; it's a one way street. I hope all the people on here saying that they rather die than get old follow through with it....but I doubt they will, it's pretty easy to call their bluff.

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1197 · April 11, 2014 at 2:07 PM

Thank you for your insight @BobK - aging is a difficult topic, scary for many to deal with fully. It doesn't surprise me that some people who haven't experienced the nuances of it go off into fantasyland and hope that they can hack their way out of aging and dying. The arrogance of youth! Well, aging and all that comes with it will happen to all of us and all we can do is meet the challenge with grace, and if the dialog of the OP is any indication, that's not going to happen for him. Sad. Good things to you.

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1197 · April 11, 2014 at 2:02 PM

May you reach your goals, & be healthy enough to be elderly with a body & mind that work. And I hope you have some wisdom by then. I wasn't "pressing my views" or advising you anything - I was sharing a view that is often left out when people talk about wanting to live longer. Age is deterioration, and it is unavoidable. We die. Hopefully, we die quickly with a minimum of pain and suffering. The medical advances that have been made often leave the elderly alive, but not living. If I would have wanted to give advice, I would have answered rather than commented.

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690 · April 11, 2014 at 6:07 AM

You respect where @ivymcivy is coming from?

Is that why you wrote ....

"Maybe you're just tired of caring for her and wish she'd get on with things... go away?"

You might need to live that long to develop wisdom, because you impress me as very late bloomer. I've yet to see even a glimmer of wisdom. YMMV

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690 · April 11, 2014 at 5:59 AM

"Maybe you're just tired of caring for her and wish she'd get on with things... go away?"

I agree with @ivymcivy. Shame on you.

You, @Methodician, are the poster child for the stupidity & arrogance of youth .... simply amazing.

My mom died at 85, in a similar physical state. Do I miss her, yes. Did I tire of visiting her, cleaning her house & kitchen or lugging her "Depends", no.

Did she outlive her body, yes.

A few weeks before her death she said me....

"it's not my life anymore, everyone is telling me what to do and I don't like it. " :(

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690 · April 11, 2014 at 5:46 AM

non-responsive....

Plus your comment ...."People who retire are more likely to die, people who work until death stay alive and healthy. ..... correlation is not causation...

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1197 · April 11, 2014 at 4:06 AM

to be honest and very personal - her life has been too long and yes, she often expresses wanting to be "in heaven with her husband". It breaks my heart. She is sharp as a tac, but her body, which has always been so strong, is slowly betraying her. She was a very healthy senior, but as an outlier on the age spectrum she is living the deterioration of her health in a brutal way. If I hadn't seen this firsthand (more than once) my views might be different. How sad that you'd assume that I was tired of her, that is an awful thing to say to someone. That was really sucky. Shame on you.

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598 · April 10, 2014 at 8:34 PM

While I do respect where you're coming from @ivymcivy, what I don't appreciate is your need to press your views upon others, your advice that I should forget my longevity goals and think more like you. We're all different and we see things differently. You claim you're just want to understand it through respecful dialogue but then you try to belittle and dismiss our goals. I want to be extraordinarily old, 130 and hobbling on a wheelchair, still learning and experiencing the wonders of the world and passing on my wisdom.

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598 · April 10, 2014 at 8:28 PM

Does your grandmother seem to regret still being alive despite her issues? Would she rather you just put her out of her misery now? Or does she appreciate the opportunity to continue to experience the world, see thing and people, to still be in the life of her grandkid? Maybe you're just tired of caring for her and wish she'd get on with things... go away?

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1197 · April 10, 2014 at 8:26 PM

I don't fall in line with what most of what (American?) society agrees with, & I think we'd be happier w/o the excess of hospitals, medicine, old age homes, wheelchairs. Everyone is different - not everyone wants to live sick and people do chose other ways out. Do you REALLY think people behave as a monolithic block? Experiences vary.Yes, the fear of death is one a big deal to many but not all. There are cultures where death is a gift. You have a very small scope of reality, it seems. Oh well, that's you. Hyperbolic examples and arguments done make what you say a universal truth

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598 · April 10, 2014 at 8:23 PM

I also just did a double take on the original comment and realized how extra-funny the idea of broccoli cave paintings was because broccoli is a neolithic invention!

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1197 · April 10, 2014 at 8:11 PM

I didn't tell anyone to do anything- I asked a question and expressed my opinion. YOU are the one who continually expresses themselves as bossy and dogmatic. And yes, people DO CHOSE DEATH often. This world contains people with varying spiritual beliefs, and they may not have the same fear and suspicion of death shared by most Occidental cultures. I respect anyone's decision to be old, to be elderly, despite the very clear and sorrowful issues that inevitably arise. I just want to understand it- preferably with respectful dialog. You are obviously not the one to have that dialog with.

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455 · April 10, 2014 at 5:11 PM

Technically what we need is essential amino acids, vitamins, minerals, essential fatty acids, water, oxygen and calories (either from fatty acids or glucose). You don't need meat per se, but it is a very fine choice when considering that it contains a decent amount of vitamins, minerals, fatty acids, and essential amino acids. Now, if you want to restrict said amino acids, there is no need to eliminate meat entirely, just eat less of it and try to stay within 30-80g or so of total protein per day, depending on what you can manage.

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598 · April 10, 2014 at 5:08 PM

What's up with all the anti-longevity propaganda? What's wrong with wanting to remain a contributing member of society for as long as possible? Did I say I want to retire at 45 and live to 100 sitting on my ass? I have no intention of ever retiring. People who retire are more likely to die, people who work until death stay alive and healthy. There's one piece of the puzzle. I'm looking for the others. If you don't want to live, kill yourself. Quick with bullet or slow with lifestyle, no matter to me. Spout your anti-longevity ranting at someone who gives a damn about your inane opinions.

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598 · April 10, 2014 at 5:01 PM

Of course, we'd all have "gone extinct" just like people are "going extinct" by eating SAD highly processed diets composed of corn oil and cardboard... Of course! Since we're not extinct, corn oil is good.

This is just the sort of knee-jerk reactionary response I try to avoid. The world isn't composed of black and white. Just because meat is good for you doesn't mean you need it. The question is: does it help you live longer and avoid the diseases of aging? I think the answer is yes but I keep an open mind.

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10994 · April 10, 2014 at 3:15 PM

Thanks Mscott!

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455 · April 10, 2014 at 2:46 PM

Many people like to act tough and pretend that they would rather be dead than sick and that's fine if it helps their ego, however, no one volunteers to jump off a bridge as soon as they turn 80, whether sick or healthy, simply because they would rather live. Methodician's goal is to live longer and healthier, which is admirable and should be respected. Telling him to just roll over and die sooner is in no way helpful and rather judgmental. You don't like being old? Fine, that's your choice, as it is a personal choice, but some of us would rather choose life (even a tough one) over death.

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455 · April 10, 2014 at 2:42 PM

I agree with Methodician, it's better to be alive and sick than dead. Most of society agrees with this, if they didn't then we wouldn't have hospitals, medicine, old folks homes, wheelchairs, etc. If being "sick" was worse than being dead, then most handicapped people, old people, sick people, etc. would just shoot their brains out instead of going to the hospital or seeking a cure, but since the vast majority don't kill themselves, I think it's safe to assume they don't want to die and hence would rather be sick than dead. Actions speak much, much louder than words.

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787 · April 10, 2014 at 10:23 AM

I agree an outright fast every now & then is a good idea aswell, basically a combo of all things suggested above depending on how one feels, rather than what one thinks they should be doing.

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787 · April 10, 2014 at 10:17 AM

Good point, I still think even just for the price of meat it's worth spacing it out & eating the minimal amount you need. I also do IF daily as I eat dinner about 7pm and i'm not hungry til at least midday the next day, I think if you work off when you're actually hungry, ie eat when your belly is asking for food and not before, then you automatically IF. I do think after a heavy workout having over 25g protein and activating mTOR can be a good idea if you're looking to grow/add muscle.

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17103 · April 10, 2014 at 10:12 AM

Actually, you can do something else. Spend time in AMPk instead of mTOR. That is, fast. Intermittent Fast daily, or every few days, or do an outright fast every few days. One of the big differences between paleolithic and modern times is modern times don't have fasting days.

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17103 · April 10, 2014 at 10:10 AM

Point is, if it was harmful, we would have gone extinct. What's harmful in old age is likely harmful in young age too.

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1197 · April 10, 2014 at 1:52 AM

I'm with you on health span - definitely. But a healthy 90 yr old is a relative thing. They will not be as healthy as a 70 yr old. Also, thinking that all the optimization you do now will stave off dementia or heaven forbid - an accident that leaves you in a place where you might rethink your zest for life ... well, things happen. I agree with @Matt 11 - do what you can to be healthy and happy NOW, and let the future take care of itself. Life is rarely what we intend or hope, no matter what our best efforts are. I have lots of compassion for extreme age- hence my thoughts being, maybe NOT.

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1197 · April 10, 2014 at 1:48 AM

You don't know how old I am! I think it's pretty patronizing to assume that A - I am young and I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who doesn't know what it is to age and B - to assume that anyone will have grandkids or kids that will care about them and THAT is the reason to live. One should live because you are engaged with life. Please volunteer at a center for elderly living, and see what life is for the very aged - even when they have family to visit. My grandmother is kept at home, and the reality of advanced age is very present. Please dont call my thoughts stupid

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30 · April 10, 2014 at 12:13 AM

Oh yes, I forgot that evolution selects for longevity.

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41452 · April 09, 2014 at 11:57 PM

All your obcessing over longevity only whittles away more of your lifespan. Relax, have some lasagna and a steak.

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30 · April 09, 2014 at 11:47 PM

"Indeed, while some studies have shown that restricting dietary methionine lengthens the lifespan of rats and while these have generated a great deal of interest, a similar study recently showed that the same effect can be achieved by supplementing the diet with extra glycine.8"

http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-and-minerals/beyond-good-and-evil

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598 · April 09, 2014 at 11:01 PM

Nice fact checking. Almost debunked right then and there, though eating a grip of lentils would do the trick. I'm thinking I could find all kinds of vegan protein sources with less leucine than most meats, though I'd probably end up with other problems by then...

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598 · April 09, 2014 at 10:49 PM

1) I'd rather be alive and sick than dead...

2) the goal is to extend not just life span but HEALTH SPAN... I want to figure out how to avoid the diseases of age. Some really old people (90's or even 100's) are still happy, and even still WORKING. Which is just one reason I never intend to retire.

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455 · April 09, 2014 at 9:16 PM

That makes about as much sense as saying there's no point in living past your 80's so you might as well kill yourself....pretty stupid.

Tell you what, when you turn eighty, why don't you kill yourself? It's not like your family will want you around or anything. Stupid grandparents, who needs them, they stink....(Sarcasm)

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10994 · April 09, 2014 at 9:07 PM

I want to teach my Grandkids how to be good people!

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1197 · April 09, 2014 at 8:55 PM

What I don't understand about the quest for longevity is - well, why? If we could get the extra years during our late 20's and our 30's, well sure. But have you spent any significant time with people who are older than 85? 90? Those are not good years, no matter what kind of family support you have. Good health in old age is relative - in many cases it means you are only incontinent 1/2 of the time. My 90 yr old grandmother, non drinker, non smoker, cooked her own healthy food all her life - well, it's not pretty, not good. Why do you want to be old for a long time?

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1005 · April 09, 2014 at 8:41 PM

Lol, I did a double take on the title + submitter.

I do a little bit of a cringe every time I see the nutritionfacts.org site and hear that pretentious vegan guy trying to use scientific articles, where if you do the math, it obviously doesn't add up. (The last one I saw that he did tried to demonstrate heart disease from added fats, using articles that actually stated the opposite.)

Leucine, I remember as one of the ketogenic proteins and the type of BCAA that would be available for supplementing pre-workout to avoid muscle loss.

90g of soy is 6g leucine. 90g beef is 1.6g.

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0 · April 11, 2014 at 10:28 AM

Leucine is one of the essential amino acids. Human body cannot synthesize amino acid. It needs to be ingested. Thus it is very necessary for getting it from dietary sources. These amino acids help in burning Fats. Leucine helps in maintaining muscle mass and helps in reducing body fats during weight loss where it stimulates protein synthesis to build muscle.

Leucine stimulates protein synthesis to build muscle the Image below shows that:

volek_graph.jpg

Animal Protein I guess is very useful in repairing/maintaining of muscles. It is one of the best sources of Protein. Avoiding Lucine entirely is not a good idea though.

While dieting Lucine helps you lose weight and spare muscle. Diet experts recommend intake of 2.5 grams of leucine, which helps in stimulated protein synthesis.

Protein from animal, which naturally contains essential amino acid, is on of the best source of Leucine.

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598 · April 11, 2014 at 3:12 PM

Interesting stuff but who ever said anything about eliminating all leucine from the diet? That would be nearly impossible. However, some plant sources have a lower proportion of leucine than most animal sources, so you could effectively keep the ratio of total leucine to total protein intake a little lower and potentially live longer with little to no side effects.

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787 · April 10, 2014 at 9:33 AM

From what i've read protein restriction is definitely a good idea mainly due to higher protein signalling mTOR which then prevents autophagy, carbohydrate restriction is also a good idea due to low insulin levels associated with increased longevity.

Which leaves fat, non-starchy veggies, and wise protein intake to make up calories, to do that in a vegan way you'd just use lots of olive/avocado oil with non-starchy veggies and eats lots of nuts, maybe some beans/lentils, although beans/lentils are still too sugary for my level of sensitivity. From a paleo perspective this could make sense to do occasionally as in instances of unsuccessful hunts falling back on plants & fats for calories seems logical, although animal fats make more sense as pure plant fats would've been hard to obtain I think.

I think it would be best to eat animal sources of protein most of the time as they are best for repair/maintenance as they are complete protein sources, but to keep it below 25g per sitting which apparently is the mTOR signalling threshold. Rosedale advises snacking when hungry and of course in a high fat, low carb, moderate protein manner, it makes sense as if it's true that 10g protein takes 1 hour to digest then it would be good to space meals accordingly if you're looking to keep mTOR signalling low.

As Stephen pointed out it could be a good idea to also supplement your protein intake with bone broth as well due to glycine.

How does it look on a day to day basis? For myself I skip breakfast and when my stomach starts rumbling & is ready for food, not before, i'll have some broth with the fat left on top and 1-3 egg yolks stirred into it. Then a few hours later when I feel a slight energy dip or hungry again some more broth with some liver pate on the side, then for dinner some meat with some veggies cooked in fat. I find that a relatively small amount of meat, cut up into small pieces, with lots of fat, salt, pepper, some veggies, is very satisfying.

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17103 · April 10, 2014 at 10:12 AM

Actually, you can do something else. Spend time in AMPk instead of mTOR. That is, fast. Intermittent Fast daily, or every few days, or do an outright fast every few days. One of the big differences between paleolithic and modern times is modern times don't have fasting days.

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690 · April 10, 2014 at 4:43 AM

Comment won't post...

1) I'd rather be alive and sick than dead... Hmmmm, never been really sick, I'd bet.

2) the goal is to extend not just life span but HEALTH SPAN I want to figure out how to avoid the diseases of age. <<<< then build some muscle! Strong people are more useful, better looking and harder to kill. Sisson (I think?)

2a) Some really old people (90's or even 100's) are still happy, and even still WORKING <<<< yeah, but the number is statistically insignificant

Stop obsessing over life span or health span....

Do something meaningful & useful, have some fun, be of service! Life extension for no other purpose than life extension?

Why the obsession with life span? You sound like my 85 year old MIL. She hasn't done a lick of useful work in nearly 40 years. Hopefully she'll outlive me so I don't have to pay for her board & care facility. She's obsessed with her physical health but has the mental capacity of slow 6 year old but it was never much better.

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598 · April 10, 2014 at 5:08 PM

What's up with all the anti-longevity propaganda? What's wrong with wanting to remain a contributing member of society for as long as possible? Did I say I want to retire at 45 and live to 100 sitting on my ass? I have no intention of ever retiring. People who retire are more likely to die, people who work until death stay alive and healthy. There's one piece of the puzzle. I'm looking for the others. If you don't want to live, kill yourself. Quick with bullet or slow with lifestyle, no matter to me. Spout your anti-longevity ranting at someone who gives a damn about your inane opinions.

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17103 · April 10, 2014 at 12:00 AM

Yes, they're absolutely right, we're not evolved to eat meat at all and it will kill us, because we evolved as hominids in the last 2MY and we ate only plants, that's why you see pictures of broccoli in paleolithic cave paintings, and not animals being hunted... oh wait!

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30 · April 10, 2014 at 12:13 AM

Oh yes, I forgot that evolution selects for longevity.

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455 · April 09, 2014 at 9:08 PM

Well, you are definitely on to something there. With regards to leucine, it definitely does increase mTOR signaling so you are correct that it could promote aging.

1. http://jn.nutrition.org/content/131/3/861S.long

2. http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6793/11/10

3. http://www.journalofanimalscience.org/content/85/4/919

Multiple amino acids (leucine included), as well as insulin and insulin like growth factors also activate mTOR, so reducing these could potentially lead to a longer lifespan. Don't forget that leucine is an essential amino acid, if you stop eating it altogether, your health will deteriorate, thus antithesizing the purpose of living longer.

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10994 · April 09, 2014 at 9:02 PM

Glycine supplemented rats live just as long protein restricted rats. I can't find the study I'm thinking of right now, but this one should help support my claim: http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/25/1_MeetingAbstracts/528.2 .

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30 · April 09, 2014 at 11:47 PM

"Indeed, while some studies have shown that restricting dietary methionine lengthens the lifespan of rats and while these have generated a great deal of interest, a similar study recently showed that the same effect can be achieved by supplementing the diet with extra glycine.8"

http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-and-minerals/beyond-good-and-evil

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1005 · April 09, 2014 at 8:44 PM

Lol, I did a double take on the title + submitter.

I do a little bit of a cringe every time I see the nutritionfacts.org site and hear that pretentious vegan guy trying to use scientific articles, where if you do the math, it obviously doesn't add up. (The last one I saw that he did tried to demonstrate heart disease from added fats, using articles that actually stated the opposite.)

Leucine, I remember as one of the ketogenic proteins and the type of BCAA that would be available for supplementing pre-workout to avoid muscle loss.

90g of protein from soy is 7.6g leucine. 90g beef protein is 7.4g. Macadamia nuts are 6.9g. Whole grains / oats are around 6.8g. Elk meat is around 6.7g. Chicken breast is 6.6g. I suppose there's less of it in plants because there's less protein in plants. Rather than trying to blame meats for health issues, I would look at them as being nutrient-dense (leucine is an essential nutrient required for optimal health), with no more leucine than your average vegan meal of equal protein.

If you ate 2400 calories worth of almonds for your protein (or 1200 calories of lentils), you could shave a tenth of a gram to a quarter gram of leucine amino acids off your day. (a little less than a calorie's worth.) I think you might as well just eat less protein, where meats would be your best option for that, because you can get that same protein from chicken at 600 calories with plenty of room to spare for foods that are more nutritious than a lb of nuts and beans.

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598 · April 09, 2014 at 11:01 PM

Nice fact checking. Almost debunked right then and there, though eating a grip of lentils would do the trick. I'm thinking I could find all kinds of vegan protein sources with less leucine than most meats, though I'd probably end up with other problems by then...

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