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Fat Soluble Vitamins A, D3, K2 + Red Meat

by (10994)
Updated about 13 hours ago
Created November 27, 2012 at 8:37 PM

Is anyone here supplementing with hefty amounts of the fat soluble vitamins A (Retinol) D3 and K2-MK-4 (Activator-X)? I know that Weston Price emphasizes this as rather important and I know that Vitamins A and D up-regulate the opposites receptor's cites, working synergistically. I also know that k2 activates Matrix Gla Protein and Osteocalcin which are up-regulated by Vitamins A and D and works to de-calcify the blood-stream.

I mention Red Meat because Red Meat includes heme-iron, zinc and some of the B-complex. Add in some aged cheese and you have a great source of calcium and phosphorus. I don't have any proof (EDIT: I do now) but I feel like adding a large amount of the fat solubles (Vitamin A) should help with the digestion and assimilation of other foods by both gene regulation (Vitamin D regulates 1000 genes) and aiding the intestinal barrier.

Is anyone else supplementing with ADK in big doses? Whether from supplements or from Cod Liver Oil?

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 11:50 AM

I base my supplementation off the work of May Mellanby, Weston Price and lots of research. And since I include Vit A and Vit K2 my understanding from all research I've come across is that there should be 0% chance of any toxicity. Nothing provided so far says anything different. The most dangerous thing from mercola was that the highest vitamin a supplementation groups had the same cancer risk as the control and increased risk of osteoporosis, which screams k2mk4 deficiency to me.

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 3:22 AM

*council*......

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 3:22 AM

Best not to supplement D blindly. More info at the Vitamin D Concil website.

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 3:20 AM

I've read it already, thanks!

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 2:30 AM

This is an article in response to the 2 sources you cited. http://www.westonaprice.org/cod-liver-oil/update-on-vitamins-a-and-d

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 2:18 AM

Right now I'm supplementing 5-10k iu. No I haven't had my blood level tested, I'm pretty confident I'm deficient. I'm supplementing Vit A and Thorn's k2-mk4 on top of that.

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 2:09 AM

How much D3 are you supplementing, Stephen? Have you had your blood level tested?

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 2:07 AM

How much D3 are you supplementing, Stephen? Have you had your blood level tested?

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 2:06 AM

And though I know many are not a fan of Dr. Mercola, here is his explanation of why he doesn't recommend CLO either: http://www.healthiertalk.com/important-cod-liver-oil-update-0192

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 2:06 AM

Interesting. If I supplement vit D alone I get aches though, whereas when I include vit A I don't have that problem. I guess everybody should do what's best for Them.

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 1:58 AM

Only if you hate or have to avoid liver. Liver also provides folate & other B vitamins in addition to iron. 100% grassfed, of course! There could be good reasons to avoid liver because of the iron for some folk.

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12677 · November 28, 2012 at 1:55 AM

Hey dragonfly, so do you think taking CLO could be fine if someone is getting plenty of sun exposure?

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 1:51 AM

Our skin can create 10,000 to 20,000 IUs of D3 per DAY from sun exposure. A wild guess, of course, but I imagine liver consumption (the primary animal source of A) would have likely been around 50,000-100,000 IUs per WEEK or less (dividing a whole ruminant's liver amongst 30 tribal members, for example) That would be approximately a 1:1 ratio of A to D3, likely less. Most CLOs have a 10:1 A to D3 ratio.

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 1:36 AM

The Vitamin D Council disagrees with the WAPF position. I happen to agree with them. Here's one article: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/news-archive/2006/cod-liver-oil-and-vitamin-a-toxicity/

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 1:29 AM

Also what are you basing "CLO has non-evolutionary ratios of A to D" on?

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 1:28 AM

It's my understanding that vitamin a and vitamin d have an extremely synergistic effect on one another and upregulate the opposites' receptor activity by a factor of 3. So supplementing with vitamin a would actually increase vitamin d absorption and vice versa. Also vitamin a seems to inhibit vitamin d from becoming toxic. http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/2010/06/04/new-evidence-of-synergism-between-vitamins-a-and-d-can-they-cure-diabetes/

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10994 · November 27, 2012 at 11:46 PM

C'mon guys, who's supplementing with fat solubles?

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244 · December 07, 2012 at 2:08 PM

I use Green Pastures cod liver oil and butter oil. I'm not sure what you would consider large amounts, but I take a few teaspoons of each daily. I believe in the WAPF position on vitamin A and D. And I believe that the cod liver oil helps with inflammation that I have from autoimmune issues.

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 12:10 AM

I supplement 6,000 IUs of D3.

I get my A from weekly liver and my K2 from Gouda cheese & pastured butter.

I would never personally supplement large amounts of A & K--easy to get optimal amounts via food. I supplement D3 because it keeps my asthma at bay. Sun exposure will keep me in the optimal range for someone without an inflammatory condition--it's just not enough for me.

CLO has non-evolutionary ratios of A to D, so I would not use it unless I was not able to get enough food(like the communities WAP studied who used CLO.)

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 1:28 AM

It's my understanding that vitamin a and vitamin d have an extremely synergistic effect on one another and upregulate the opposites' receptor activity by a factor of 3. So supplementing with vitamin a would actually increase vitamin d absorption and vice versa. Also vitamin a seems to inhibit vitamin d from becoming toxic. http://www.westonaprice.org/blogs/2010/06/04/new-evidence-of-synergism-between-vitamins-a-and-d-can-they-cure-diabetes/

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 1:36 AM

The Vitamin D Council disagrees with the WAPF position. I happen to agree with them. Here's one article: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/news-archive/2006/cod-liver-oil-and-vitamin-a-toxicity/

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 2:07 AM

How much D3 are you supplementing, Stephen? Have you had your blood level tested?

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 2:30 AM

This is an article in response to the 2 sources you cited. http://www.westonaprice.org/cod-liver-oil/update-on-vitamins-a-and-d

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 1:58 AM

Only if you hate or have to avoid liver. Liver also provides folate & other B vitamins in addition to iron. 100% grassfed, of course! There could be good reasons to avoid liver because of the iron for some folk.

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 2:06 AM

Interesting. If I supplement vit D alone I get aches though, whereas when I include vit A I don't have that problem. I guess everybody should do what's best for Them.

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10994 · November 28, 2012 at 1:29 AM

Also what are you basing "CLO has non-evolutionary ratios of A to D" on?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
32518 · November 28, 2012 at 1:51 AM

Our skin can create 10,000 to 20,000 IUs of D3 per DAY from sun exposure. A wild guess, of course, but I imagine liver consumption (the primary animal source of A) would have likely been around 50,000-100,000 IUs per WEEK or less (dividing a whole ruminant's liver amongst 30 tribal members, for example) That would be approximately a 1:1 ratio of A to D3, likely less. Most CLOs have a 10:1 A to D3 ratio.

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32518 · November 28, 2012 at 3:20 AM

I've read it already, thanks!

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12677 · November 28, 2012 at 1:55 AM

Hey dragonfly, so do you think taking CLO could be fine if someone is getting plenty of sun exposure?

Ce41c230e8c2a4295db31aec3ef4b2ab
32518 · November 28, 2012 at 2:06 AM

And though I know many are not a fan of Dr. Mercola, here is his explanation of why he doesn't recommend CLO either: http://www.healthiertalk.com/important-cod-liver-oil-update-0192

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2688 · November 28, 2012 at 3:06 AM

I supplement 5000 iu D3. I get 5000-10000 iu A from cream, butter, liver, etc so no need to supplement.

Although I eat a lot of pastured butter and ghee, it's hard to find good sources of data on the actual K2 content of these foods, so I've recently started supplementing with Life Extentions Super K. It's got 1000mcg K1, 1000mcg K2-MK4, and 100mcg K2-MK7.

From what I've read recently its important to make sure you have enough K2 to completely activate all the K2-dependent proteins produced by Vit A and D or you might have calcium wind up in soft tissues instead of in bones and teeth. Since there's no known toxicity to K1 or K2, why not be sure.

Note that there are also synthetic K3-K7, some of which can be toxic. I avoid these.

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